H2B / F2B FAQ
#326
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Re: H2B / F2B FAQ
I'm running a H23 but the position of the alternator and ac seem like they would fit... But I'm just a hopeful person lol. We will see soon.
#330
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Re: H2B / F2B FAQ
Hello all
Not new to HT but new to the H2B crowd
Picked up a H23A PDE spec last Saturday and will be going into my 97 Acura EL
Not new to HT but new to the H2B crowd
Picked up a H23A PDE spec last Saturday and will be going into my 97 Acura EL
#331
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Re: H2B / F2B FAQ
I have a 1320 h2b kit that I'm using for a f23 in my crx. What post mount should I use? Their kit is made after the qsd kit but neither offer a post mount for the f23 block.
#332
Re: H2B FAQ
NOTE:If you reply to this thread with a question that as already been answered or an issue that has already been addressed, I will delete you post to keep this thread clean. If you want to discuss or ask question, go to the discussion thread. I am keeping this thread clean to help everyone else on here from having to sift through pages and pages of information. Thanks
What is H2B?
H2B, can also be called F2B is mating a F or H engine to a B-series transmission. F and H have the same bolt pattern for the transmission, since you can use a F trans on a H engine, and vice versa, H2B is also F2B. For clarity Instead of calling the setup "H2B/F2B" I will call it H2B from this point foward.
H2B uses b-series axles, b-series linkage, b-series mounts, b-series clutch, b-series pressure plate.
On our civics/integras we have 3 main mounts:
Rear transmission mount
Passenger side transmission mount
Drivers side <FONT COLOR="blue">engine</FONT> mount
As you can see, only one mount actually connects to the engine. Both H2B kits include a custom timing belt mount on the engine that mates to the stock B-series chassis mount This means, you use B-series mounts. Both H2B kits strongly reccomend using aftermarket mounts and at the minimum to use mount inserts.
Advantages of H2B:
The main advantage is displacement. Big Bore = Big Power. With the relatively low cost of the H/F-series longblocks, it gets to a point where H2B/F2B is a lot more cost effective than building a B-series, particulary NA. In my opinion this is a good alternative to the K-series swap.
When comparing it to a K-swap, you don't have to worry about the shifter, you don't have to spend an arm and a leg for the mounts, you don't have to buy that expensive K-pro, no custom axles. There is plenty of aftermarket support and knowledge for the H/F-series engines, as well as plenty of aftermarket support and knowledge for the B-series transmission. The best of both worlds. H2B kits may seem expensive at first, but when you compare all these other factors, it begins to seem like a bargain. Remember, All other non-D swaps require custom axles, mounts, and shifter modification.
What H2B kits are available?
http://evoindusa.uia.net/index...98ba9
http://quartersportsdrag.com/H2B.html
What's the main difference in the kits?
Evolution uses a custom flywheel
QSD uses a flywheel spacer
Alternator brackets?
As far as I know, explicit speed is the only company that offers prefabricated alternator brackets. Correction, Camp1320 now offers them too.
http://www.explicitspeedperfor....html
camp1320.com
Other issues with H2B:
The engine sits in a higher location than normal h22 swaps (non-h2b) so hood clearance is an issue. You can space the hood with longer bolts + washers/spacers. The thread pitch is M6-1.0. The other option would be to maybe fabricate a custom rear t-bracket that drops the engine/trans about 1" or so and put washers between the chassis mounts and the trans. Whichever you prefer.
Header/exhaust manifold issue:
The H/F series tilts towards the firewall like this / (drivers side view) but with H2B the engine is placed in a more vertical position like this | With that said, the stock prelude/accord exhaust manifold will point up towards the firewall. You have two options here, you can heat the stock manifold up and bend it to the desired position. The custom route is also available, camp1320 currently offers an H2B header at a reasonable price, I've also heard of RMF supplying custom H2B headers and I believe (could be wrong) that Bisi is working on one for his evolution kit.
Here's some links to get you started:
camp1320.com
http://bisimoto.com/wst_page6.html
http://www.myspace.com/rmf_headers
Wiring:You will need to use a b-series harness and extend the alternator wires. You may have to do some hybrid wiring with the distributor plug. There is abundant information on this, especially here: https://honda-tech.com/zerothread/650329
Other things worth mentioning:
Some swaps (depending on the kit) may tilt the engines too far foward that henders normal engine oil drain issues. If your setup requires a drain plug relocation, you can weld one of these nuts wherever you prefer.
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread/2008473
I know there's another H2B faq, but it's a traffic jam of information and I'm seeing several H2B faq threads floating around these forums. I am making this to help the other guys that aren't as familiar with H2B aware of this information.
<FONT SIZE="3">Another very important thing</FONT> I am growing tired of seeing this Evo vs QSD, or Bisi vs RMF stuff. I will not tolerate any of this useless bickering. I don't care who said what, don't make posts that encourage this pointless debate. If you don't like a certain kit, speak about it on a mature and technical level. Thanks.
More to update, but this is a rough start
What is H2B?
H2B, can also be called F2B is mating a F or H engine to a B-series transmission. F and H have the same bolt pattern for the transmission, since you can use a F trans on a H engine, and vice versa, H2B is also F2B. For clarity Instead of calling the setup "H2B/F2B" I will call it H2B from this point foward.
H2B uses b-series axles, b-series linkage, b-series mounts, b-series clutch, b-series pressure plate.
On our civics/integras we have 3 main mounts:
Rear transmission mount
Passenger side transmission mount
Drivers side <FONT COLOR="blue">engine</FONT> mount
As you can see, only one mount actually connects to the engine. Both H2B kits include a custom timing belt mount on the engine that mates to the stock B-series chassis mount This means, you use B-series mounts. Both H2B kits strongly reccomend using aftermarket mounts and at the minimum to use mount inserts.
Advantages of H2B:
The main advantage is displacement. Big Bore = Big Power. With the relatively low cost of the H/F-series longblocks, it gets to a point where H2B/F2B is a lot more cost effective than building a B-series, particulary NA. In my opinion this is a good alternative to the K-series swap.
When comparing it to a K-swap, you don't have to worry about the shifter, you don't have to spend an arm and a leg for the mounts, you don't have to buy that expensive K-pro, no custom axles. There is plenty of aftermarket support and knowledge for the H/F-series engines, as well as plenty of aftermarket support and knowledge for the B-series transmission. The best of both worlds. H2B kits may seem expensive at first, but when you compare all these other factors, it begins to seem like a bargain. Remember, All other non-D swaps require custom axles, mounts, and shifter modification.
What H2B kits are available?
http://evoindusa.uia.net/index...98ba9
http://quartersportsdrag.com/H2B.html
What's the main difference in the kits?
Evolution uses a custom flywheel
QSD uses a flywheel spacer
Alternator brackets?
As far as I know, explicit speed is the only company that offers prefabricated alternator brackets. Correction, Camp1320 now offers them too.
http://www.explicitspeedperfor....html
camp1320.com
Other issues with H2B:
The engine sits in a higher location than normal h22 swaps (non-h2b) so hood clearance is an issue. You can space the hood with longer bolts + washers/spacers. The thread pitch is M6-1.0. The other option would be to maybe fabricate a custom rear t-bracket that drops the engine/trans about 1" or so and put washers between the chassis mounts and the trans. Whichever you prefer.
Header/exhaust manifold issue:
The H/F series tilts towards the firewall like this / (drivers side view) but with H2B the engine is placed in a more vertical position like this | With that said, the stock prelude/accord exhaust manifold will point up towards the firewall. You have two options here, you can heat the stock manifold up and bend it to the desired position. The custom route is also available, camp1320 currently offers an H2B header at a reasonable price, I've also heard of RMF supplying custom H2B headers and I believe (could be wrong) that Bisi is working on one for his evolution kit.
Here's some links to get you started:
camp1320.com
http://bisimoto.com/wst_page6.html
http://www.myspace.com/rmf_headers
Wiring:You will need to use a b-series harness and extend the alternator wires. You may have to do some hybrid wiring with the distributor plug. There is abundant information on this, especially here: https://honda-tech.com/zerothread/650329
Other things worth mentioning:
Some swaps (depending on the kit) may tilt the engines too far foward that henders normal engine oil drain issues. If your setup requires a drain plug relocation, you can weld one of these nuts wherever you prefer.
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread/2008473
I know there's another H2B faq, but it's a traffic jam of information and I'm seeing several H2B faq threads floating around these forums. I am making this to help the other guys that aren't as familiar with H2B aware of this information.
<FONT SIZE="3">Another very important thing</FONT> I am growing tired of seeing this Evo vs QSD, or Bisi vs RMF stuff. I will not tolerate any of this useless bickering. I don't care who said what, don't make posts that encourage this pointless debate. If you don't like a certain kit, speak about it on a mature and technical level. Thanks.
More to update, but this is a rough start
#333
Go Tigers!
Thread Starter
Re: H2B / F2B FAQ
This thread has not been updated in a while. I figure I should post a link in here to my thread that I posted in Janurary 2020 that covers the differences between the B, F, and H-series transmissions.
Basically, the transmissions are so similar that it might cause one to reconsider H2B over using a straight H trans. The cliff notes version of this thread is that the B, F, H transmission have the same C.D. (center distance between the mainshaft and countershaft), and that you can run B-series gears in a H-series transmission. Something like B16 / ITR 3rd and 4th gears drop right into an H22 transmission with ZERO modification to anything. side note, be very careful not to get your gears mixed up since some of them have the same number of teeth, yet they are not compatible:
B16 / ITR gear tooth counts
3rd - 1.458 = 35/24
4th - 1.107 = 31 / 28
H22 trans - (M2F4 - 1992-1996 Prelude VTEC H22A1)
3rd - 1.360 = 34 / 25 (this is IDENTICAL to 'GSR' 3rd gearset. exact same part number)
4th - 1.071 = 30 / 28
H22 trans - (M2Y4 / M2U4 - 1997-2001 Prelude)
3rd - 1.345 = 39 / 29
4th - 1.034 = 30 / 29 (same ratio and tooth count as 'GSR' 4th gearset, different part numbers)
The B16/ITR mainshaft 4th gears have 28T (28 teeth), and so does the M2F4 Prelude mainshaft 4th gear.
Same goes with the 30T countershaft 4th gear between the 1.071 M2F4 and and the 1.034 countershaft 4th gear from the M2Y4/M2U4 and GSR transmissions.
If you mismatch these, they will destroy immediately themselves. If someone manages to mix these up, I have pictures somewhere from where I had to sort out which was which.
Link to the thread
https://honda-tech.com/forums/transm...-sbxm-3345057/
Basically, the transmissions are so similar that it might cause one to reconsider H2B over using a straight H trans. The cliff notes version of this thread is that the B, F, H transmission have the same C.D. (center distance between the mainshaft and countershaft), and that you can run B-series gears in a H-series transmission. Something like B16 / ITR 3rd and 4th gears drop right into an H22 transmission with ZERO modification to anything. side note, be very careful not to get your gears mixed up since some of them have the same number of teeth, yet they are not compatible:
B16 / ITR gear tooth counts
3rd - 1.458 = 35/24
4th - 1.107 = 31 / 28
H22 trans - (M2F4 - 1992-1996 Prelude VTEC H22A1)
3rd - 1.360 = 34 / 25 (this is IDENTICAL to 'GSR' 3rd gearset. exact same part number)
4th - 1.071 = 30 / 28
H22 trans - (M2Y4 / M2U4 - 1997-2001 Prelude)
3rd - 1.345 = 39 / 29
4th - 1.034 = 30 / 29 (same ratio and tooth count as 'GSR' 4th gearset, different part numbers)
The B16/ITR mainshaft 4th gears have 28T (28 teeth), and so does the M2F4 Prelude mainshaft 4th gear.
Same goes with the 30T countershaft 4th gear between the 1.071 M2F4 and and the 1.034 countershaft 4th gear from the M2Y4/M2U4 and GSR transmissions.
If you mismatch these, they will destroy immediately themselves. If someone manages to mix these up, I have pictures somewhere from where I had to sort out which was which.
Link to the thread
https://honda-tech.com/forums/transm...-sbxm-3345057/
#334
Re: H2B / F2B FAQ
I am having the same issue as you did... but 5 years later... any help?? lol
F23a1 block
H2B post mount doesn't fit on the f23 block
Right now I am leaning towards just custom-making a post-mount in CAD but want to save my time/money if there is an already made solution out there...
I have looked over tons of forums and google searches and haven't found anything.
Is anybody out there...?
F23a1 block
H2B post mount doesn't fit on the f23 block
Right now I am leaning towards just custom-making a post-mount in CAD but want to save my time/money if there is an already made solution out there...
I have looked over tons of forums and google searches and haven't found anything.
Is anybody out there...?
#335
Go Tigers!
Thread Starter
Re: H2B / F2B FAQ
I am having the same issue as you did... but 5 years later... any help?? lol
F23a1 block
H2B post mount doesn't fit on the f23 block
Right now I am leaning towards just custom-making a post-mount in CAD but want to save my time/money if there is an already made solution out there...
I have looked over tons of forums and google searches and haven't found anything.
Is anybody out there...?
F23a1 block
H2B post mount doesn't fit on the f23 block
Right now I am leaning towards just custom-making a post-mount in CAD but want to save my time/money if there is an already made solution out there...
I have looked over tons of forums and google searches and haven't found anything.
Is anybody out there...?
Pictures of the bracket can be found in the first post of this thread:
https://honda-tech.com/forums/honda-...style-2029332/
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