Tyson

i mentioned before that i planned on installing the ground control kit i had laying around from my crx.

i obtained a full set of stock s2000 dampers to install these with. so that i did not have to take apart and use my own stock shocks and keep them isolated should i put them back on later. but yes, i installed them on stock shocks. ill answer the question if its suitable later.

having not ever dealing with s2000 suspension before, i still figured the same sleeves from the CRX/Civic/integra GC kit would fit right over the s2000 shocks. the main shock diameter is significantly larger than my crx shocks, but they still clear. well, ALMOST. the shocks i got had the lower spring perches already removed (they need to be reused on koni's which the previous owner switched to). and right at the bottom before the welded base ring the diameter is very SLIGHTLY oversized. i forget the exact diameter, but the OD of the shock just above that ring was only like .008" larger than the ID of the GC sleeve, for about .5-.7". so i asked my machinist to pop them on a lathe and bore it out a bit. i had to test fit each one of them but once we got the right fit, the sleeves are VERY snug. no extra orings needed to fill the minimal gap between the sleeve and shock.

another slight modification needed and worth mentioning is that the extra shocks did not come with top hats so i used some extra top mounts and bushings and whatnot laying around to complete the assembly. what i noticed is that the top of the NON-S2000 top hat has some extra tabs that are bent over at the very top of the top hat which increased the overall diameter. the s2000 top hats did not have these tabs. and the holes in the chassis to fit the top hat where appropriately sized. so basically the NON-S2000 top hat doesnt fit through. its like fitting an oversized square in a round hole. but all i had to do is dremel the tabs off once i realized this. no biggie.

the springs and spring rates i had available to me were pairs of 250, 375, 400, 450, 500 lbs/inch. i decided to use 400/375. why? i dunno really. 250 seems kind of low on either end. and i wanted the rear to have a lower rate than the fronts for an easier drive (less oversteer). and if i want to switch, i can. thats whats great about the adjustable spring setup.

so before i put the springs on, i measured my ride height, before any modification. from the ground to the top of the fender. note that i have aftermarket 17" wheels with Front: 215/45/17 Rear: 245/40/17 kumho SPT. but the difference is all that matters anyway. i decided on a total drop of 0.5" all around. part of the reason i wanted to use GC is because i didnt want to lower much at all. amazingly, the stock ride height is amazingly consistent all around.

i also measured my toe settings with longacre toe gauge plates. dont argue how accurate they measure. theyre consistent if you use them right. see the numbers below. you may be surprised how much it changes with such a minimal amount of change in ride height.

BEFORE
Front_ 1/16" OUT_ 26.0" ___26 1/16"
Rear__ 1/8" IN__ 26 3/16" __ 26.0"

AFTER
Front_ 1/4" OUT_ 25 1/2" __25 5/8"
Rear__3/16" IN__25 5/8" __25 7/16"


I could definately have done better to equalize things, but im not one to be picky. i didnt even touch the fronts after first installing it. i happened to install the rears before the fronts (actually 24 hours before the fronts and drove with stock up front and 375's in the rear for a whole day.) and both the rears just dropped exactly to 26" on the first install. it wasnt until i installed the fronts and found that both were right around 25.5" did i adjust the rears to match the fronts. honestly, thats basically how i decided on the .5" drop, it was easiest to leave it that way...

so the first conclusion i want to point out is that the FRONTS had a change in toe of 3/16"! on just a .5" drop! just think how much your toe changes when you drop it any lower. THIS is the reason why your tires wear out after changing ride height. yes, ill be getting an alignment done this week, asap. ill have printouts later.

overall impressions with 400/375lbs on STOCK shocks? honestly, NOT BAD! not great but really not that horrible. i can definately tell the shocks are underdamped now. coming off turns, the little wiggle so common even with the stock springs is even greater. and the compression damping could be better as i go over dips/water drainage across the road. but it still plants itself and doesnt pogo down the road at all. i am not going to give any further comment on how it handles until i get a FULL alignment done and i can take out the change in toe that affects the handling feel in itself.

will they last? we'll see....

so plan is going to willow springs with NASA this week. its gonna be BIG willow, not streets. ill test out the suspension. itll be better than stock springs. thats for sure.

ill get pics later this week, with an alignment printout. i need to do a full brake job as well and will take pics then.

avallach

Thanks for this great post. I'm looking for a slight drop and was steering towards a set of Koni's with the OEM springs on the lower perch, but this is much more cost-effective. Please keep us updated. Do you happen to know what the spring rates for the OEM springs are?

Tyson

ah, forgot to mention stock spring rates. honestly, do NOT quote me on these rates. i dont know what exactly theyre based on or how they were calculated and find it all dubious myself. but at least i can go with ballpark.

00-01 Fr: 218(3.9) - Rr: 291(5.2)
02-03 Fr: 240(4.3) - Rr: 230(4.1)
04-05 Fr: 256(4.57) - Rr: 207(3.7)

also consider S techs are rate 296/363 and not supposed to be that much stiffer.

avallach

Damn, I didn't think they were that "low". How interchangeable are the suspension components between model years? Is it advisable to purchase the Koni's and utilize the springs of the 04-05 models for my 01?

Tyson

dont expect me to answer any of that in this thread.

avallach

No problem. Didn't think I was jacking the thread -- just a "natural" progression that usually happens with any discussion.

Tyson

alignment results are in. in the interest of time, i only had them adjust the front toe and and the left camber and ignored the caster, and ignored the rear completely since the toe was fine (its supposed to be toed in, any change in rear toe is i think within the error bars.) however, i didnt notice the right rear camber at 3 degrees, i should have had them bring it down to 2 degrees instead. no biggie i think. tire wear has been very even anyway.

(all in degrees)

FRONT LEFT
after __before
-1.60__-.53 _____ camber
-5.02__-5.02_____caster
0.00__-0.21______toe


FRONT RIGHT
after __before
-1.80__-1.66 ____ camber
-6.24__-6.24_____caster
0.00__-.29_______toe


REAR LEFT
after __before
-2.21__-2.20 _____camber
0.30___-.24______toe

REAR RIGHT
after __before
-3.09__-3.04 _____camber
0.19___-.21______toe

Btw, comparison to my AT HOME DIY TOE measurements, pretty damn accurate.
my measurements were in inches. converting the new measurements into inches.

Front_ 1/4" OUT___7/32" OUT <---converted
Rear__3/16" IN____3/16" IN <---converted

Longacre toe plates FTW

George Knighton

What I'm looking for is a reading that is the equivalent of the total overall thrust.

If the car seems a bit skittish at very high speeds, or you find yourself having to hold the wheel to counteract an evident slight pull despite the fact that the toe is correct, then it'd be a good idea to get a good four wheel alignment from someone who specialises in this kind of thing.

Tyson

thrust is only .06 degrees. less than 1/32 difference.

it tracked fine.

thats exactly why i got the alignment done on a hunter rack. i can do it at home, but its easier to just pay someone else. better yet, i have the lifetime alignment deal at firestone.

Mr. Projekt

Can't forget a good alignment.

Tyson

some pics after i finished replacing the brakes.



(im going to slap a "SHOWA" sticker on that reservoir...)


cobalt GT sports and centric rotors.


no wonder i felt a bit of "warpage". look at the rust ring on the inner inside edge of the rotor. the pad was toasted too, white fringes and pits in the pad. idiot me left the parking brake on for too long..... at least im not proud enough to admit its my fault.

Mr. Projekt

The real Showas have yellow on them.

How much for the rotors?

Tyson

they are real showas!

i dunno. im going to have the fronts and rears turned. fronts are heavily grooved, but theres lots of meat. the rears just need a slight resurfacing.

i had actually bought a set of already turned rotors in preparation for this. i got the new centric fronts anyway since i got the set just for the rears so i have an extra set of turned fronts. so that makes 2 pairs of fronts and 1 pair of rears ill have laying around.

i might just sell off 1 front pair tho. the extra one i have is about 24mm thickness. half of the difference of the original 25mm thickness, and 23mm min thickness. so still usuable for street at least.

Tyson

toe plate thread.

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1974327

Tyson

whoring out my car.

Mr. Projekt

Thought you had wheels?

Tyson

i saved my stocks with good S-02's so i can burn them up on the track instead of the street. and i dont want brake dust on my 17's.

Mr. Projekt

Mr. Projekt

Hey man, know anywhere where I can drill a 4x100 pattern on some spare 5x114.3 rotors?

Tyson

nope.

finally got my rotors resrufaced after dropping them off sunday, making me come back in an hour, then making me wait again, then leaving and saying theyll be done monday, then me dropping by on my way to work monday, and not having them done, then again dropping by this morning and having only 2 turned and waited another hour for the other 2 to get turned. goddam i hate automotive service ppl!

makes me want to buy my own damn brake lathe. and every other machine so i dont ever have to deal with them again.

Mr. Projekt

My buddy's shop does the double surfacing. About half an hour tops for 2 rotors. They're jerking you.

Tyson

yeah, that was obvious. but its done.

im kinda annoyed that they didnt even cut the lip flat on the rears.

Mr. Projekt

How bad of a lip? These are the ones with 24mm left that you mentioned?

Tyson

the fronts are fine. i didnt measure them but they look meaty enough. i think im going to use these.

one of the rear ones has a big lip on the edge. the other one he said he had to get near the service limit because it was warped. but i know it had a lot of meat left to begin with. i wonder if it was just not on straight. whatever. and it wasnt the one with the rust on the inside edge (shown above).

Mr. Projekt

Oh yea you said rear.

If they're at least somewhat competent, they should have thrown it on a lathe and free-spin it with a runout gauge if they suspect warping, before cutting it.

Oh wells. I have a set of rear rotors with good meat if u want it. I'll hook u up.