some of you may know already of longacre toe plates. for those of you who dont know what these are, theyre a set of aluminum sheets and two measuring tapes to measure the TOTAL TOE of the axle, (front or rear wheels).

here they are in use.

line up the plates even and flush against the wheel. and apply a little pressure.


then measure. the difference is your total toe. either in or out.



http://www.racerpartswholesale.com/long19.htm

$56 plus shipping.

i think its a good deal if you do a lot of work on suspension and need to verify if your alignment has changed in between REAL alignments. thats right, it does NOT REPLACE a real, professional alignment. because the limitation to these is that they can only measure TOTAL TOE between the wheels, not the individual side and most importantly, it cant set the toe in the front relative to the rear, or THRUST ANGLE. you have to string up the car in order to do that. even then you dont know if all four wheels are relative to your chassis.

you CAN do minor adjustments to your alignment and do test drives to see the affect. but this process is very time consuming. id much rather just go to a professional.

how accurate are they?

this week i modified my s2000 suspension by putting ground controls on and only lowered 1/2". i measured the before and after installation. then went to the alignment shop a few days later to have it aligned on the laser rack.

results? within 1/32".

Front_ 1/4" OUT___7/32" OUT_____1/32" DIFFERENCE
Rear__3/16" IN____3/16" IN _____NO DIFFERENCE

yeah, its accurate.

"But its just 2 aluminum plate and 2 tape measures.... I CAN MAKE IT MYSELF!"
fine, you go do that... the cost of the material and the time to fabricate it right (notice the bends to give it longitudinal stiffness) are going to cost most ppl more than $55.

its not for everyone. but for jobs like doing replacing tie rods, this is a great and accurate tool.


oh yeah, one last drawback is that the wheel MUST be fully within the tire's edge. no spokes or what not protruding out (like they would scrap a curb). i hope this is obvious why since the plate has to be completely flush and straight to measure properly. my stock AP1 s2000 rims are not compatible.


Modified by Tyson at 6:18 PM 5/4/2007

 

good thread!!

 

Only for the technically inclined.

 

here's another diy toe tool

http://www.mossmotors.com/Shop...der=1

 

looks hard ot use and impossible to reach the back of the whel.

 

i think they are pretty use full to keep checking your alignment AFTER you get a full alignment, but as for setting it up with only the toe plates, you only get total toe. Which in some funky situations you can end up with some weird right rear wheel or left rear wheel toe settings.


For a little more money you can get a set up to "string" your car. Which gives you the toe for each wheel individually. But i think the setups are around 200 or so dollars.

edit: hahaha just read the whole thing and you said what i said

 

Even raised text on the tire sidewall can make these inaccurate. How much, I don't know...

The real trick with these is doing a 4-wheel alignment. Sure it can be done with strings and patience, but what if you have staggered wheel sizes and/or different track widths front & rear...

Sorry Tyson, just stirring the pot...

 

I think the only thing I'd change would be to drill a set of holes and add long (two inch long) bolts and lock nuts at "rim width". Then adjust the bolt height so that the head touches the rim "band". Both bolts would have to be adjusted to the same height.

By doing this, you could clear spokes and also not have to worry about tire "lettering".

Wes (never happy) Vann

 

i considered that, but seeing the results (less than 1/32" accuracy") theres really no need to be picky.

and yeah, then you introduce an extra plane of measurement with the length of the bolts and their placement. its simply not needed.

 

has anyone else considered mounting one of these on the longacre toe plates? with these mounted on the toe plates, when you measure the rear, you can then check which side is (more) off, relatively. the toe plates will tell you the total toe, the lasers will tell you if its even or not. point them towards the front of the vehicle and measure the distance of the spot from the front hubs. when the spot distance from the hubs on the two sides are equal, you know whatever your total rear toe difference is, the rear is straight to the chassis.


http://www.harborfreight.com/c...92494

its even got a "beam line" capability, so you dont have to necessarily get it perfectly level. just make sure its flush to the plate.

 

I made similar plates from plywood years ago but i just use them to make sure nothing is way out of wack after suspension changes. Ive found they are usually within 1-2/32 from my alignment place if you take your time.

I also have this cheap camber gauge that I really like. It reads within 1/8 of a degree.
http://www.racerpartswholesale.com/align.htm

The toe gauge on that page looks nice too for the price.

 

I find this tool rather interesting:


You can use it for camber too:


It's rather expensive, though. Has anyone tried it?

After looking at it a bit, I suppose a bit of error in having both pieces level could introduce some error in the measurements. Using two toe plates appears to eliminate this error, for the most part.

 

interesting, but i dont see any advantage other than less storage space. but the articulating arms would need to come out exactly at the same angle or theres an inherent error.

toe plate lie pretty flat and dont take any space. i kind of lose them in my garage actually because they can hide behind anything.

 

So no one hangs their car from the front tow hooks and uses a plumb bob to check alignment?

Ok, seriously though, this has inspired me to build some plates myself once the car is up and running.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Bakeoff &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Ok, seriously though, this has inspired me to build some plates myself once the car is up and running. </TD></TR></TABLE>

i gotta ask, BUT WHY?

$56 plus shipping. how much is your time worth? or not worth?

 

How much innaccuracy is introduced if your garage floor isn't level?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tyson &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
i gotta ask, BUT WHY?
$56 plus shipping. how much is your time worth? or not worth?
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Maybe he has a lot of free time. Who are you to question what people do with their time?

Why do you even use these plates, instead of just going to an alignment shop? How much is your time worth? Do you work on your own car, or do you take it to a professional? How much is your time worth? Do you fold your own clothes, or do you have your maid do it? How much is your time worth? Do you shop for your own groceries, or do you have your butler do it for you? How much is your time worth? Do you fly on commercial airlines, wasting hours with security and layovers, or do you fly on your personal jet? How much is your time worth?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dwolsten &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Maybe he has a lot of free time. Who are you to question what people do with their time?

Why do you even use these plates, instead of just going to an alignment shop? How much is your time worth? Do you work on your own car, or do you take it to a professional? How much is your time worth? Do you fold your own clothes, or do you have your maid do it? How much is your time worth? Do you shop for your own groceries, or do you have your butler do it for you? How much is your time worth? Do you fly on commercial airlines, wasting hours with security and layovers, or do you fly on your personal jet? How much is your time worth?
</TD></TR></TABLE>

um yeah...

 

Is this lame response all you can come up with?

Obviously, if you don't hire a full-time maid to do your laundry and cook your meals, your time must not be worth very much. Or are you just a hypocrite?

 

actually, your rhetorical questions pretty much support the fact that its probably not worth anyones time to make these plates.

thanks for agreeing.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by suspendedHatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">How much innaccuracy is introduced if your garage floor isn't level?</TD></TR></TABLE>

It's hard to say how much inaccuracy is introduced. But if your car is not level at all 4 corners, you're going to introduce some inaccuracy.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tyson &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">has anyone else considered mounting one of these on the longacre toe plates? with these mounted on the toe plates, when you measure the rear, you can then check which side is (more) off, relatively. the toe plates will tell you the total toe, the lasers will tell you if its even or not. point them towards the front of the vehicle and measure the distance of the spot from the front hubs. when the spot distance from the hubs on the two sides are equal, you know whatever your total rear toe difference is, the rear is straight to the chassis.


http://www.harborfreight.com/c...92494

its even got a "beam line" capability, so you dont have to necessarily get it perfectly level. just make sure its flush to the plate.</TD></TR></TABLE>


btw, someone showed me this great link on the same idea. i havent gotten around to trying it myself yet.

http://www.sr20forum.com/techn...39018

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by pcorad &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

It's hard to say how much inaccuracy is introduced. But if your car is not level at all 4 corners, you're going to introduce some inaccuracy.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Not really.

The car not sitting level effect the toe measurements by how much ever the suspension is off, and the gain or lose of toe in the suspension travel.

IMO these aren't the end all be all for alignments just a quick check. As long as you aren't on a really unlevel floor i think you would be fine.

 

You are probably right. I was thinking more about camber measurements than toe.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tyson &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">btw, someone showed me this great link on the same idea. i havent gotten around to trying it myself yet.

http://www.sr20forum.com/techn...39018</TD></TR></TABLE>

that craftsman 10 in digital and laser level is only $29.99 online at sears.com this week. i just bought one, will be trying it out soon. should be nice to measure rear thrust AND camber at home now.

i never bought the harbor freight laser level. im glad i waited until the craftsman was on sale.

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_1...level

----------------
an 8 year update.... it works. line up the rears symmetric to the car first by pointing it forward and measuring distance from chassis any way you want, then align the fronts til the steering wheel points straight and the toe is where you want it to be.


wow, 8 years later and the sears link still works!