crxaddikt

car is 1990 honda crx si, 200,000 miles on chassis, engine is ZC dohc runs great no problems since it was put in in 2003.

november 2007 i went through everything possible and replaced the starter with new one (rebuilt), it did'nt work, then i tried another starter & did'nt work, it came down to putting the original one back in and then it worked fine.

so it started all the time since november 2007 and i thought i was done with the problem, but yesterday i stopped at some place to get something to eat, i came out and the car did'nt start, just had dead sound no cranking, so i did what i used to do and all i did was tap the starter just about 3 times or so, i got back in car and it started right up.

i even stopped and did couple other different errands that evening and car started fine???

i know this is'nt a major thing, but this should'nt be happening after all the diagnosing and replacing stuff i did back in nov 07, i went through everything and the problem was fixed (or so i thought, lol)

anyone have any idea why would just randomly not start like that???


the only thing i can think of is drained battery ? cause i have lots of good components in the ignition system


its just weird how car runs great and i go all over town and starts all the time and just one rare time it does'nt (i did replace main relay couple yrs ago and i heard they last long time, so should'nt be that)


any thoughts or things i can check??, i just don't want it to happen where i get stuck somewhere, i would rather start thinking what it is now before it gets worse

irblood1985

I had this same issue on my 89 hatch. I replaced the battery cables about a month ago and it hasnt happened since. Maybe give that a try?

honda.lioness

The fuel pump main relay is famous on these c. 1990 Hondas for failing intermittently and so causing no-start conditions like yours. Check it per the link at http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/faq.html#startrun

ridgeapd

Main relay x 2. remove, resolder connections and re-install.

gringo7718

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ridgeapd &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Main relay x 2. remove, resolder connections and re-install. </TD></TR></TABLE>

He said that he replaced his main relay. (They should last a while and their symptoms really only appear when the car interior is really hot, like sitting in the sun for a while, so odds are that the main relay is not the cause.)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by crxaddikt &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
november 2007 i replaced the starter with new one (rebuilt), it did'nt work, then i tried another starter & did'nt work, it came down to putting the original one back in and then it worked fine.

i came out and the car did'nt start, just had dead sound no cranking, so i did what i used to do and all i did was tap the starter just about 3 times or so, i got back in car and it started right up.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

I think your problem is either the starter (which was never replaced) or the ignition key cylinder. they would both cause the symptoms you are experiencing.

Sometimes when the starter begins to go bad, it will lock up internally, and you might have to tap it a couple times to loosen the parts inside so that they are free to spin. It will be difficult to diagnose because it is not happening all the time. But next time it happens, test. If hitting the starter gets it to work, then thats most likely the problem.

crxaddikt

thanks for the replies,

it starts most of the time, but its mostly the first start of the day like in the morning when about to go to work after cars been sitting overnight not being used.

and i start over and over about 7-9 times or so and it just clicks and is quiet with no cranking, sometimes i hear a little short sound (like a sound of a crank about to go) but just, but eventually it does start, then usually the rest of the day it starts every time.

i have to mention that this seemed to happen in 2007 around the same time, maybe its just during the wet/cold season that is starting????

what i don't get is that in November 2007 i was visiting my parents and my car did'nt start so i was stuck a little longer than i planned and i had plenty of time since i was in between jobs, so i went and got a starter at autozone (rebuilt) and i put it in and did everything correct (i called the free tech-help phone number that came with the starter paperwork, they confirmed i did everything right), but yet it STILL DID'NT WORK??????

..............so, .......i got a new battery and put that in and STILL DID'NT START, then i got money back for the autozone starter.

i heard on this forum that the tests they do to see if a starter is good or bad is'nt always reliable and that it can test good and still be bad, also i heard rebuilt starters can be bad so i just assumed the autozone one was just a bad one, so i got another starter this time at O'Reilly's, i put it in and IT STILL DID'NT START ???

THEN I PUT THE OLD ORIGINAL STARTER BACK IN AND IT WORKED !!!!!!!!!!!! ?????

so after that i had no problems from Nov,07 til now(Oct08), so what i'm confused about is why it is doing same thing it did before Nov07 ???? cause i went through all the necessary steps to diagnose it and in the end the solution was just putting in the original one back in, maybe it just needed to be re-tightened or grounded or whatever or the connections of the wires needed tightening, but the problem seemed to be solved and i drove 4 hours back to dallas and it has been starting every single time until now??

so what steps should i take before i get stranded ??? especially since winter is coming up, this is perfect time to get this over with and be confident with the starting system.

i still don't understand why putting in those 2 different new(rebuilt) starters did'nt work? it seems like since the battery was good, alternator new, battery cables new, seems like they would work?? but instead the old one worked instead???? so to me it seems like it would just do the same thing if i try putting new(rebuilt) starter in again?????

or should i have my old/original starter just checked out or rebuilt??? cause i know thats the exact starter that supposed to go with the car, and i know a place called Autostart who is a small family shop who specializes in rebuilding starters, for 40-60 bucks i think.

any advise ??? thanks in advance

aftermath1312

iTrader: (20)

or sure is your starter...why,because you had no noise crank and right after you tapped 3 times you went and it turn on...if it was the main relay it wouldnt start on hot days or after a short runs..what i mean is that if your main relay did failed on you, you're car should be able to crank eventhou it wouldnt start because of the bad relay..but it wouldnt start after tapping the starter..when main relays start to go out all you have to do when your car doesnt wnat to start is wait until it cools down and it should turn on...
but just replace your starter and you should be fine...

sanimalp

i know what the problem is.. your battery..

it is possible for the battery to show 12 volts, but not be able to provide the amperage required to turn the starter. my guess is that over night your battery drains enough via the quirks in your electrical system that it won't turn the starter, or only turns intermittently.

autozone is notorious for selling parts that aren't exact replacements as well, so they may not distinguish between the different starters available for the EF. there are in fact, 3 different starters for the d-series from honda. They are a .9kW mitsuba, a 1.4kW mitsuba, and a 1.2kW nippon denso. When you get a rebuild from autozone, it is pretty much a crap shoot as to what you will get, which explains why the new starter may have not worked.

An inductive ammeter will give you the answer with 100% certainty, but my money is on the battery.

main relay is another possibility, but that is a free fix.. just pull it out and solder the joints. the same thing can be done with the ignition switch as well. the contacts can be cleaned inside the switch, and it will operate as new.

crxaddikt

sanimalp -

i have a feeling your answer is the most likely thing thats happening, i don't think i mentioned it above but i have a random thing that happens when i arm my alarm, usually when i arm it the turn signal lights and tail lights flash twice when armed and flash once when you disarm it, but sometimes when you arm it the turn signal lights and taillights just stay on, and then if you don't notice it then you might come back to a car with a drained battery and all it usually needs is a jump and starts up fine.

but i am so used to this that i don't let that happen, instead i just watch the turn signal lights when i arm the alarm and make sure they don't stay on, so i never come back to a totally drained battery like i used to, but instead i can easily see how this electrical thing can possibly be draining some of the battery so it is not able to provide the right amount of juice to the starting system.

i bought this battery in 2007 november so its newer, but i know that does'nt matter.

i should either have a place look at my alarm install and maybe fix or re-install it or get a new alarm, i should just get that thing off the car cause electrical problems can get worse and be really confusing.

the alarm is a good brand by clifford but its about 10 yrs old, what i can maybe do is just bypass the whole "light flashing" feature all together so i can still have the alarm work but really there is not much use for the light flash feature anyway, i don't like anything displaying attention anyway, i just would rather arm it with nothing.

i think that electrical thing is one reason but also another reason probably is that the starter is most likely the original one, (car is 1990 model, first owner had 8 yrs, then i'm second owner since 1998), so the stuff inside is going on its way out slowly and my tapping it is making them connect enough to work for the time being, but i should just try and get the exact kind of starter that goes with the car (and not autozone) and see if it works.

Mr.Death

Possible starter relay failure?

sanimalp

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mr.Death &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Possible starter relay failure?</TD></TR></TABLE>

the Op could check this scenario by jumping the starter solenoid. You will need another person to help you out. have the other person turn the ignition to the start position as you touch a wire from the starter solenoid to the battery. if your car doesn't start then, there is either a problem with the positive or grounding wires from your battery, or your battery is dead. if you know someone else with a honda, you could swap the batteries temporarily to verify the battery is the problem, which is a little easier than jumping the starter solenoid, but it may not rule out things upstream of the starter solenoid, like the starter relay and the clutch switch.

crxaddikt

alright thanks, i am going to try and check that stuff out this evening

i'll come back and post results....


btw, how would i check if my clutch switch is working ok? do i just simply look under the pedal and see if its stuck ? or what ? sorry i'm not familiar with the clutch switch thing, i have never had to mess with it, but can you tell me any ways to check if its good or not ? thnkx

sanimalp

you can check the clutch switch by removing the starter relay, then with the clip toward the sky, test the voltage through the right most 2 pins when the clutch is pressed in. if the switch is operating properly, you should see voltage when the clutch pedal is pressed in, and no voltage when it isnt. if either of those are not the case, then your clutch switch is bad.