hush22

Small update with fitment of different chassis and the new Hush Performance.com prototype V2.0 bracket. This install is on an 88 Wago. So not only I was testing fitment to an 88 but the difference between the Wago and Civic/Crx. There is some small differences in the dash sheet medal. These differences only make for more clearance.

This is the 89-91 pedal set next to the 88 Up close you can see the limited mounting points available to be utilized. The 89-91 is more rigid and offers one more mounting point to the firewall. With heavier pressure plates there is alot of stress put onto the pedal set with any aftermarket Hydro pedal conversion. The 89-91 aids in the durability of both areas, The Hush bracket and the OEM assembly. The test vehicle uses a Spec twin disc clutch actuated via Hasport cable to hydro assembly. Before removal it was obvious that the cable it self was near its strength limits, just hearing it stretching under load was enough to know something else was needed to extend the clutch lines life. In this case testing a hydro conversion was one way to attempt to solve this issue.







In this picture in the 89-91 "naked" stamped steel minus the pedals showing how it matches up the the 88 firewall. Notice the OEM bolt holes align perfectly



The 88 clutch pedal can not be used with the 89-91 pedal assembly





Installed look up at where some have had issues for clearance with their (other Brands) conversion bracket. In the 88 Wagovan the sheet medal is slightly raised adding clearance and aiding in installation.



In the V2.0 Hush Performance bracket Additional strength points have been added and a change in triangulation of the clutch master.



Two service holes have been added as well for easy of installation.



In the end due to time constraints, the vehicle has not been road tested and a remote slave or reverse slave is in need for this particular vehicle due to clearance around the oem slave mounting point a solution is in the works as you read.



Something such as this may work.



The reverse slave may just be what is needed, less moving parts, however in the above picture The Hush Performance Remote Slave Unit has been reconfigured with adjust ability which adds or subtracts leverage. Depending on the situation, such as, heavier then stock pressure plates may solve the heavy pedal "feel".

I CRX I

im a little confused, why is the reverse slave necessary?

hush22

the down pipe runs into the same area that the slave bolts to. The bleed screw digs in to the flex pipe on this vehicle. Every swap is different and to accommodate every type of swap is difficult so by providing more options makes these kits more universal.

elmalouno

how is it that this thread only has one reply? this is an awesome product! when will there be a kit available to the public?

hush22

I know right. haha Actually they are available right now. Our website is still in the process of being built for ecom, pay pal, picture gallery, video reference including installation instructions ect... You are more then welcome to pm me.

This thread I guess is more of a service bulletin and public awareness of whats to come

littlewagon

Hush22, I've been following your updates with your hydro conversion products and I have to say that I am impressed with the amount of thought and ingenuity that has gone into the development of these parts. I have a 90 wagon and have tried just about every hydro conversion kit out there with mediocre results. My issue is with the heavy pedal feel due to the ACT HD pressure plate. So far the Sonem kit has held up the best but after seeing your kit I am curious if it will perform better.

hush22

Well actually I have a very patient customer in New York that is sharing some similar issues with even our kit. We have some variables though that we are uncovering. There is some 89-91 pedals vary in construction. Even the sonem has had some mixed review as have we with pedal feel. Our kit bolts to any 89-91 how ever it seems that any hydro conversion at this point, has experience best results from the 89-91 assembly which has the clutch pedal return spring on the outside left verses the return spring mounted in between the brake pedal and the clutch pedal. So if this theory is correct, Let me guess your assembly has the spring on the inside...Yes???

rexracer626

boom!! bisi's wagon FTW..gonna get me one of these kits

littlewagon

Actually I am using a pedal assembly from a 90-91 EX because of the added structural reinforcement as you pointed out earlier. I added a few pieces of steel around the clutch pedal pivot area as added reinforcement. I think part of the heavy pedal feel issue has to due with the differences in clutch pedal arm length in a EF vs. EG. The exact same clutch/pressure plate combo felt firm but good in my old EG, but in the wagon its a little too stiff for long drives and stop/go traffic.
I forgot to mention, I repositioned the clutch pedal return spring on the outside.

elmalouno

can you just flip the spring to the outside?

hush22

I dont think so, the spring mounting points coincide with each other. i cant say that the years make a difference either. I have a 91 crx H2B swap ACT Extreme pressure plate and the clutch feel is that of stock. The only variable left is that it happens to have the outside spring style pedal.

hush22

Hey man if you happen to hear what Bisi has to say about our kit could you let me know. He couldnt be there the last day I was there. I never got a chance to talk to him after the install. I havent heard from him since.

I think He might have experienced a heavy feel, as well, due to the possibility of a inner spring style pedal set.

littlewagon

Let me explain that better. The SI/EX pedal assembly has the return spring around the clutch pedal arm itself toward the top near the pivot point. Other EF pedal assemblies have a different type of spring on the outside which connects between a small mounting tab on the clutch pedal arm and the pedal bracket itself. The SI/EX pedal bracket already has the hole on the bracket for the return spring. I just removed the mounting tab for the return spring from a non SI/EX clutch pedal and welded it to the SI/EX pedal arm and used the "outside" style spring with it.

littlewagon

So your clutch pedal firmness feels like stock even with that pressure plate?

rexracer626

last i heard he hasnt really test driven the car but this Saturday we are gonna be at fontana for IDRC he will be there so everyone should come haha :p

elmalouno

can someone post pictures of these springs please? i have an SI pedal assembly but i think mine is different.

hush22

Yes Youd think that SI/EX theory could be true, which it might be. I have seen personally 2 91 SI's
with the outside spring though :/...

Yes, Ive installed several and came up with the same result. Pedal feels that of stock. Little to no more effort then any other Hydro car would experience. Including many 91s with the out side spring even 91 MY HF which uses an ACT EXTREME plate that feels slightly heavier then stock. 2 out of them , however, 89 with the outside spring, and bisi's using an inside spring assembly DO Feel Heavy along with Elmalo from New York. The 89 is using a stock clutch, Bisi's 88 using a 91 inside spring with the spring removed and Spec twin disc. So where is the issue. :/ Along with Hasport, Innovative, Sonem people have experienced different out comes, most of them being good. The 89 was using Hasports Cable lever. since the car (HYDRO B16) has been swapped he had nothing but problems with a super Heavy clutch and had broken 5 Honda OEM cables. We swapped to the Hydro and the pedal felt exactly the same. Wheres the problem. The transmission was removed inspected down to the internals nothing was found.

So what we need to do is figure out where the anomalies are and whats causing the different pedal feels.

Is it possible Honda went though different manufactures to make the pedals?
Us vs. Japan vs Canada???

Is it possible that if Honda did use different manufactures that perhaps the clutch pedal on some could be longer then others?? Creating more leverage??

^^^^ I doubt the leverage (being longer) part because if that was the case my Bracket just wouldn't align. But it is possible that the Fulcrum point could be lower creating more leverage.


OK perfect thanks for getting back, Im sure hes busy. Were you one of the guys getting a kit I left at the shop?

littlewagon

Hush22, what size steel braided hose are you using from the clutch master cylinder to the slave cylinder?

hush22

Currently -3. Im in the process of changing the Cars that I have access to to -4 as some line companies have suggested using for clutch lines. Their suggestion is based on the fact that unlike a brake system using a booster to enhance hydraulic pressure the Clutch does not. I am unsure at this time that this will actually help this application. Testing is the only way to make sure. Even if We up grade to -4 the line is still limited at the Honda OEM slave because it using 10mm . Not any more fluid will actually get into the slave. This Would just create higher line pressures, and possibly line failure could occur. The next step would be to either use an aftermarket slave or bore and retap the OEM slave. This would drive costs up by having to use an aftermarket slave and mounting brackets, or I could modify the slaves I provide with the kits. Either one driving costs up. This would make it that you'd have to buy everything needed and possibly drive my kit out of an affordable market. But at least it would be a part that works.

littlewagon

^^^Thanks for the info. I am currently using a -4 hose for my set up. I bought all the fittings from Earl's #1 store in Lawndale. The guy was very helpful and all they stock all the fittings.

hush22

Heres a pic of another customer from Tucson that is using Prototype V2 His pedal is that of stock using an outside spring. Clutch Master stage 3 pressure plate 89 four door



This is a Sonem bracket installed in March of 08. Super heavy pedal. ACT Extreme Pressure plate. The master cylinder piston was positioned straight. This out side spring pedal set was from a 91 HF



89 HF outside spring.Exedy stage 3 pressure plate. Pedals little Heavy but could be from the plate.



Some Have experienced a heavy pedal feel because of the clutch master piston triangulation. The piston could get bonded in the master cylinder wall which could create resistance. Ive install a One of these brackets and didnt have this issue. Notice this was on an outside spring pedal set.



The point of this is to try to find out what is causing different pedal feels from all angles.

elmalouno

have you had both types of pedal assemblies side by side?

hush22

no not yet the only inside spring style I had was installed on Bisis wagovan. I have only had access to outside springs. Im looking hard for that style.

sh!ft

https://honda-tech.com/forums/honda-crx-ef-civic-1988-1991-3/simplest-hydro-conversion-evar-2794549/

2point2

wow, where do I start?

People should wait for an unbiased review of this product before jumping on this bandwagon. You've been warned.