arcuate

I wanted to see if anyone has an idea about what’s going on with my 1998 Civic Hx. 134k miles. No mods that I know of.

History of the car:
I bought the car in May of 2009 with 124k miles on it. Check engine light came on the same night I bought the car. Took it back to the dealer and they changed the rear O2 sensor. They did not tell me the code.

Over the next 10k miles the check engine light would come on and off intermittently as the car drove fine I just let it go.

The car was stored from early January to late February. My emissions test was due at the end of February and I reset the computer hoping that the light wouldn’t come back. I was rejected because of not ready status. I left the testing station and CEL came on I brought the car to a mechanic who found this code

P1162 Air/Fuel Ratio (A/F) Sensor (Sensor 1) Slow Response

He changed the front O2 sensor (cost was close to $600.00) and then told me that I would also need to change the rear O2 sensor ( for over $300.00)due to another CEL code. He did not tell me what the code was. I decided to change the rear O2 sensor myself. Cleared the codes.

Now I have

P1167 Air/Fuel Ratio (A/F) Sensor (Sensor 1) Heater System Malfunction/Heated Oxygen Sensor Sensor1 (Primary LAF HO2S) Heater System Malfunction
And a pending code P0136 O2 Sensor Circuit Malfunction (Bank 1 Sensor 2)

Any ideas? This car is driving me crazy.

rick_rabies

are you getting the correct o2 sensor put in the correct place?
if so sounds like a wiring issue....check the harness for any frays...is it touching the exhaust?
have you changed the spark plugs or even checked them?

ChokolAwt

iTrader: (1)

alright... i thought i had this same problem. that a/f code, is not just tripped by a faulty o2 sensor. it could be a sign that your fuel pump is slowly dying. is your car running a little rough?

if the long term fuel trims are excessively lean it will trip the code. fuel trims are calculated through the LTFT and STFT (short term fuel trim). the STFT comes directly from the o2 sensor itself when the ecu is in closed loop. the LTFT is what the ecu calculates over the course of several hundred miles and keeps changing it as necessarry. say the fuel pump is slowly delivering less and less fuel; the o2 sensor is reading this as a leaner and leaner burn. the ecu automatically adjustes the fuel tables to compensate for this lost fuel. after a while, the LTFT get too lean and it trips the code.


we had this happen alot at the stealership we worked at. a car would come in with that code, we'd replace the o2 sensor and they'd be on their way. a couple weeks later the car would come in again with the same code. the TS (trouble shooting) manual only says to replace the fuel pump if the code is accompanied by rough driving (sputtering, missing, etc.)

you might have caught it in the early stages... or your o2 sensors are being replaced with cheap off-brand ones. i'd take it back to the shop that did the last one and have them replace it again for free. o2 sensors should not fail after only 2k miles...

arcuate

Thanks for the replies.

I did have a couple of instances of a loss of power. I would push the gas and the power come on and off and the car would jerk back and forth. I put in some Lucas fuel treatment and it has not happened since.

Is there any way to check the fuel pump to see if it is failing?

What do you guys think about a blown fuse I remember reading about regarding recurring CELs.

I'll put in some new plugs, rotor, distributor and fuel filter and see if that helps.

I'll check the wiring as well.

gwl

I had a 97 HX, I bought it new. I had over 325,000 miles on it with the original primary O2 sensor. This sensor is so expensive for the HX with a manual transmission. It is one of the reasons why I sold it. I bought a 97 CX so it lessen the pain when I sold rid of it. The problems that you are having, did your mechanic used Honda parts. For some reasons, Hondas are very picky with aftermarket Oxygen sensors. They are are usually hit or miss. I would start there if you have an aftermarket sensor.

BlackHXCoupe

What's the history on this car?

Was an auto > manual swap done to it?

If so the primary o2 sensor probably isn't wired up right. The real o2 sensor has around 5 wires I believe. It's not cheap as you have found out.

arcuate

I'll need to speak with the mechanic about what type of sensor he used. I did buy a Bosch direct fit secondary O2 sensor from autozone.

How can I tell if the transmission was swapped. I only had the car for about a year and do not have any other information on it. I would assume that the mechanic would have noticed if there were the wrong number of wires at the primary O2 sensor. I will check though.

Thanks for your suggestions.

arcuate

I spoke with the mechanic and they used a Bosch primary O2 sensor.
They offered to take back the bosch and get one from honda. I would have to pay the difference though.

What do you guys think?

arcuate

UPDATE

I've been putting off dealing with this car until the past week.

I brought to car back to the mechanic who changed the primary O2. He said that he check the wiring and found that there was no ground for both the primary and secondary O2 sensors and it would cost $600 to find where the problem was.

He said he would have to take the manifold off and follow the wires? I don't see the wires going into the manifold, so I'm not sure what he's talking about.

I told him no and brought the care to another mechanic who checked the wiring per the shop manual and he said it was fine. But when he checked the resistance of on the terminal end of the primary O2 sensor there was no resistance. So the O2 sensor is defective.

Since the first mechanic put in the O2 sensor and it is under warranty, I brought it back to him. He says he checked "5 ways" and it came back that it was working fine. He still recommends that I pay him the $600 for him to check the wiring.

Any suggestions.

B18C5-EH2

I'm not at work with access to AllData, but there was a service bulletin that covered many 96-00 Civics that covered a problem with the engine wiring harness at the support bracket for the intake manifold. My shop has repaired about 10 of these issues in the past, but the symptoms vary from your problem.

We've not done an HX though - pretty much every one we've seen was an Ex model which might have different wires/functions affected. On an EX with the chafing harness under the IM the symptoms would usually be blown fuse for the alternator, and check engine code stored for primary o2 sensor.

I'll be back with the bulletin info and see if it applies to the HX model too...

B18C5-EH2

You'll need adobe reader for the link to work:

Click Here for TSB/Repair for 96-98 Civic, All and some 1999 models affected by engine harness rubbing IM Bracket



Hope that's your problem as it's not a terribly hard fix.

I'd be PISSED at any shop that charged me for an o2 sensor that I probably didn't need. They will undoubtedly lie to you and cover their butts by saying the classic line:

"Well we tested your old sensors and they were bad. Maybe your wiring issue caused the damage to your sensors?"

Print that TSB and see what the mechanic says. I would absolutely NOT pay someone $600.00 to check the wiring. We charged about 1.5 hours in labor to fix the issue for our customers. Our labor rate is $78.00/hour, and materials were about $5.00 so the total cost was usually around $123.00 or so. The TSB says ".5 hours" but it is more time consuming than that. You usually end up having to remove the IM support bracket, and there's not much room to make good repairs.

arcuate

Thanks for the help. I'll take a look at the tsb and hopefully I can get this resolved.

tegrevboy

have you run a CARFAX? If not i have an extra you are more than welcome to use.. At least this way you can find out if it was an auto or a manual from the factory. and any other problems not known.

arcuate

I think I can find out if it was a manual by the VIN. I did have a car check on the car done when I bought it. I need to get the car back from the mechanic before I can check the VIN.

Thanks for the offer, If I need it I'll let you know.

tegrevboy

okay just Pm me, my CARFAX will run out in about a week.