JasonGhostz

Has anyone been successful in removing the spindle/mounting plate for the rear calipers from the trailing arm? I've been able to disassemble the entire rear trailing arm except the spindle.

The spindle is secured by 4 torx head bolts. Access to all of these bolts requires the removal of 2 brackets attached to the "inside" of the trailing arm (furthest from the wheel). I'm not sure, but I think these are brake hose brackets. The bolt heads are about 2 inches deep (beyond the inner surface of the trailing arm).

Of course, I am ill-equipped to remove it, so I'm hoping someone can shed some light on what is needed to do so. I imagine these bolts are rusted in, and are torqued to some insane level. Does anyone have the torque specs for these parts (trailing arm/spindle), or know where I might get them?

Lastly... I'm in the process of setting up an image serving account. I'll try to get some pictures up later. If anyone knows of any free and easy ways to do so, please let me know.

Thanks in advance!
JasonGhostz


Modified by JasonGhostz at 11:00 AM 9/24/2005


Modified by JasonGhostz at 11:02 AM 9/24/2005

1995Ex_Sedan

http://www.imageshack.us
http://www.photobucket.com

JasonGhostz

Thanks, man! pics coming soon...

...links to images added
This is the plate to which I was referring. This is a picture of the right side arm, with the caliper mounting points to the extreme left.
http://img393.imageshack.us/im...j.jpg

This is a picture of the "inside" (furthest from the wheel) of the right trailing arm. The caliper mounting points are to the extreme right, and the 4 bolt access holes can be spotted in a skewed pattern around the spindle nut.
http://img393.imageshack.us/im...u.jpg

This is a picture of the torx head bolt, secured to the mounting plate from the inside of the trailing arm.
http://img399.imageshack.us/im...n.jpg

This is my ghetto depth gague reading of the bolt head from the trailing arm inner surface... about 2 inches...
http://img393.imageshack.us/im...f.jpg

OK, thanks again for any constructive input!
JasonGhostz

Thanks to ImageShack for Free Image Hosting
Modified by JasonGhostz at 10:33 PM 8/23/2005


Modified by JasonGhostz at 10:36 PM 8/23/2005

JasonGhostz

OK... I ordered an internal/external Torx socket set sizes T20-T70, E10-E24. I hope these fit... I'll report later for fittment...

But before removing these bolts, I'd like to make sure I can torque them back to the specified level. Anyone know if the Helms or Chilton manuals/cds have this info (Torque specs for the caliper mounting plate/trailing arm bolts)? The Haynes guide doesn't get that specific.

Thanks in advance!
JasonGhostz

JasonGhostz

Just got my Torx head socket set, and the bolt head is T50. I haven't tried to remove this bolt yet... I'm having too much fun inserting the male torx sockets into the female torx sockets, in the hopes of making torx socket babies.

But, more importantly, I don't want to loosen a bolt if I don't know its torque specs. Does anyone know as to what level these bolts should be tightened??

I wouldn't mind buying the Helms manual (or some other one), if someone can guarantee that this information can be found within it. Anyone know for sure?

Thanks again in advance,
JasonGhostz

JasonGhostz

[Shameless self-promoting bump]

Anyone got the torque specs for the torx head bolts? Don't make me spend 70$ on the Helms manual (especially since nobody has confirmed it can be found there)!!!

Thanks,
JasonGhostz

JasonGhostz

Well, after removing the torx head bolts and the spindle nylock nut, the ****** still wouldn't come off. At this point, I don't want to take the hammer to it to try any further. I've ordered a brand new Helm Inc. 1996-2000 Honda Civic Service Manual, so its more of the waiting game to see if this thing can come off.

Does anyone know about how much it might cost to get 2 trailing arms bead blasted? I'd love to do it myself, but I can't really justify the costs of the appropriate equipment (not to mention a place to put it). Any links and other help is greatly appreciated.

JasonGhostz

JasonGhostz

OK. First off, I've updated the opening post (including the title) in light of what I've discovered through recent events and 2 weeks of tedious searching. Secondly, I finally got rid of the pain in my vagina and (lightly) hammered the spindle assy out with a 2 pound rubber mallet. Thirdly, I am still not 100% sure as to the origin of my used components (maybe 95%), but after giving more details, I'm hoping the HT'ers will help make it complete. Invariably, there are going to be things that I don't know, and things that I know incorrectly. TIA for the friendly corrections. Buckle up, this post's a doozy...

My goal is to emulate the rear disc assembly of the 1999 CIVIC Coupe SI (I have a bone stock 1999 CIVIC Coupe)...

Here's what I bought. I bought a used pair of trailing arms with disc brake assys from a reputable online site who did not have documentation regarding the origin. It included [2 upper control arms, 2 ebrake cables; which were not part of the item's description = freebies ] 2 calipers incl pads, 2 rotors, and 2 trailing arm assys (trailing arm, spindle, hub, and associated hardware). The ebrake cables are mangled, the pads still have a while to go before they get near the sensor, the surfaces of the rotors are very crusted, the hub/bearing assemblies give me little confidence, and all bushings are rotted. The rotors are still quite thick and don't have any visible runout or lopsidedness. However, they will definitely need resurfacing. The calipers will definitely need new seals, as I can see a crack in one of the caliper pin boots.

I think I have the rear trailing arm assembly from a 92-00 CIVIC (HONDA P/N 52370-SR3-G10, about 95% sure based on this picture of the 95 3DR SI w/o ABS rear lower arm), but I realize it could be the exact same setup as some kind of Integra or a Del Sol chassis...

After a heaping shitload of brushing and rust removal, here's what the right caliper looks like.
http://img396.imageshack.us/im...g.jpg
http://img379.imageshack.us/im...a.jpg
http://img379.imageshack.us/im...v.jpg
http://img379.imageshack.us/im...a.jpg

The calipers seem to be the same as the 1999 CIVIC Coupe SI (HONDA P/Ns 43019-S04-013(L), 43018-S04-003(R)). The person here has the same vehicle model as mine (2DR EX). In this picture, the stamp "NISSIN 7CLP13S" can be seen. I believe the CRX also uses this stamping, but the ebrake cable bracket and mounting surface for the CRX caliper has its bolts lined up paralell to the bracket (from what I *think* I remember seeing). The odd thing is that this person lists the trailing arm from a 99-00 CIVIC SI as a required part (probably for consistency's sake), then implies he used a GSR trailing arm setup in other parts of his site. Whatever...

The rotors seem to be the same. I ordered some brand new rear Brembo blanks for the 1999 CIVIC Coupe SI (Brembo P/N 25170 solid). When I remove and replace the rotor, it looks to fit and spin correctly with the caliper remounted. I am only 99.9% sure that this is the correct rotor for this disc brake assy, as the 1991 CRX SI rear disc (Brembo P/N 25199 solid) has the same overall diameter, min thickness, and only differs in overall height by .5mm. I am concerned about the new rotor's balance, as the rotor to wheel mating surface's raised area is off-center. I have never seen this before, and I don't know how concerned I should be.

Rotor Comparison:
http://img379.imageshack.us/im...c.jpg
http://img379.imageshack.us/im...w.jpg
http://img379.imageshack.us/im...u.jpg
Rotor's Off-center Wheel-to-Disc Mating Surface (edge readings):
http://img376.imageshack.us/im...u.jpg
http://img376.imageshack.us/im...a.jpg

Here is a pic of the hub I need to replace. It has NTN bearings, but when I ordered the hubs for a 1999 CIVIC SI (from a different online site), I received an ABS equipped hub that had too large of an inner diameter to properly seat around the spindle. I've already called my local Honda Dealership, and confirmed that the 1999-2000 CIVIC Coupe SI did NOT come with ABS. I'm still in the process of rectifying that purchase. Here are some pics of the ABS hub.

??? HONDA P/N 42200-SR3-A53 (NTN) ???
http://img373.imageshack.us/im...s.jpg
http://img373.imageshack.us/im...b.jpg
http://img373.imageshack.us/im...s.jpg
http://img373.imageshack.us/im...c.jpg
http://img373.imageshack.us/im...w.jpg
http://img373.imageshack.us/im...y.jpg
http://img373.imageshack.us/im...p.jpg

And while waiting to get my refund, I ordered another set of the hubs below from a local shop. I brought my old hub, but like a dumbfuck, I left my trailing arm/spindle at home before I left for work. The shop worker and I visually gave a . Of course, when I got home... . I have a good (unstated) reason to believe they gave me hubs for an older model ACCORD...

??? HONDA P/N 42200-SE0-008 (KOYO) ???
http://img373.imageshack.us/im...t.jpg
http://img373.imageshack.us/im...c.jpg


!!!!!!!!!!! expletive X 2 = -$300. !!!!!!!!!!!!


I'm highly confident I'll get most of that $ back, but what a MFPITA! Before I make my 3rd attempt at getting the correct rear hub/bearing assy (for the 1999 CIVIC Coupe SI w/rear disc brakes, no ABS (HONDA P/N 42200-SR3-A06, **OR** maybe some ACURA P/N??)), I need to confirm that it will fit the spindle I have.

Here is a pic of the spindle assy I have. This angle shows the shorter, inner shaft with the nylock nut. The rear "Spindle Nut/Axle nut" (the one with the raised shoulder staked into the outter shaft of the spindle) is HONDA P/N 90305-692-010, and was ordered for a 1999 CIVIC Coupe SI. It can be removed/mounted with a 1.25" 6-point socket, .5" drive, and is torqued to 134 ft/lbs. The rear "Spindle Nylock Nut" fits a .9375" socket, and is threaded onto the inner shaft of the spindle assembly (furthest from the wheel). I cannot find a HONDA P/N for this nor the torx head bolts, nor the Spindle Assembly, and have stopped looking. The spindle assy is secured to the trailing arm with 4 torx head bolts (T50), as well as the spindle nylock nut. The torx bolts are also held in with what appears to be LOCTITE Blue. I used a T50 socket with .5" drive, 3.5" extension, and 24" breaker bar to remove them. I was fortunate not to need any rust penetrators to remove these bolts, and they are seemingly reusable.

The hub I need has a NTN bearing, and reads "NTN HUB 008 JAPAN SA" etched around the circumference (top and bottom). The rubber seal around the base (furthest from the lug studs) reads "NOK BG2664E 15" around its circumference. On the hub, it has "C 4 8" stamped around it. Here are some pics, as well as some more ghetto measurements...
http://img373.imageshack.us/im...z.jpg
http://img373.imageshack.us/im...f.jpg
http://img373.imageshack.us/im...d.jpg
http://img373.imageshack.us/im...r.jpg
http://img373.imageshack.us/im...h.jpg
http://img373.imageshack.us/im...y.jpg

Here's my minimalist rear disc conversion (- hydraulics, - cables): http://img373.imageshack.us/im...d.jpg

There are some unknowns I would love to have answered/confirmed...
Can someone please confirm that the hub I need to replace is HONDA P/N 42200-SR3-A06 (or some ACURA equivalent)? Are there any other Manufacturer & P/Ns anyone can provide?
Can someone please confirm that the spindle assy pictured above will fit onto a 1999 CIVIC Coupe EX's stock trailing arm? I am 99% sure it will, based on all of the searching I've ALREADY done. If I get an opportunity to work on it again, I'll try to find out. I can't afford a lot of downtime on my DD, a weekend at best. My main concern is if the used trailing arm I purchased is bent (looks ok, but has very slight flares near the compensator arm connection points).

I still don't know the exact torque specs for the nylock spindle nut, and the torx head bolts. The Helm Service Manual for the 1996-2000 Civic did not have this info. During removal, I used a .5" drive dual beam torque wrench (0-150 ft/lbs), and tried to see how stable of a reading I could get. From what I can remember, the torx head bolts came off at around 65-70 ft/lbs, and the nylock nut at around 80-90 ft/lbs. Unfortunately, it might be reversed. Fortunately, I still have the other trailing arm as well as the 2 on my car to test with (hoping the drum assembly uses them). But if anyone can give some guidance...

Thanks again for taking the time to look this through. Thanks in advance for all advice and guidance, as well as tolerance for my noob ***. I hope to provide more info later regarding hub/spindle/trailing arm compatibilty for the 92-00 CIVIC, as well as update the pics when I get my new digital caliper. I have a spreadsheet going, but I haven't found a good site for OEM Acura parts yet. More to come...

JasonGhostz


Modified by JasonGhostz at 11:36 PM 9/24/2005


Modified by JasonGhostz at 7:23 PM 10/12/2005


Modified by JasonGhostz at 7:26 PM 10/12/2005

JasonGhostz

...Can anyone confirm that...

1 - This is the spindle for a 92-00 CIVIC (or compatible) with rear disc brakes, NO ABS

2a - HONDA P/N 42200-SR3-A06 will fit this spindle.
and/or
2b - Beck-Arnley P/N 051-6005 will fit this spindle.

As of now, I'm about 95% sure of: 1-yes, 2a-yes, 2b-yes. I have yet to get my hands on 42200-SR3-A06, and I have 051-6005 on the way. I will confirm fittment upon receipt.

Let me know of any evidence that suggests otherwise. Thanks again for the help!
JasonGhostz

JasonGhostz

OK... After finally getting the "correct" trailing arms, here's what I discovered...

1 - NO. The spindle pictured here (http://img393.imageshack.us/img393/1572/dsc000343aj.jpg) is from a 88-91 Civic/CRX with disc brakes (or compatible). This spindle will not accept a hub from a 92-00 Civic, 94-01 Integra, nor Del Sol.

2a - NO. Honda P/N 42200-SH3-018 or 42200-SX8-008 is the correct disc brake hub assembly. The drum brake hub also fits this spindle, but will not have the threaded holes for the disc retaining screws, and it is a little lighter because it has bigger holes in their place.

2b - NO. Beck-Arnley P/N 051-6052 will fit this spindle.

... 95%... heh...

I'll update with more pics and measurements later. I've got some new gaging tools on the way (TOYS!! YAY!!), and I'll confirm fitment for 92-00 Civic rear hub/spindle combos (non ABS)...

Have a great drive!
JasonGhostz

EL Vap133

Wow, what are you trying to do?

JasonGhostz

Eventually I'll do (yet.. another) writeup w/pix on a bare minimum rear disc conversion. I'll be removing, cleaning, and rebuilding the assembly from the spindle outward, unless I can somehow confirm the trailing arms are straight and rust free.

Here's a pic of an assembly I did not use:
http://img373.imageshack.us/im...d.jpg

It was from a 88-91 Civic/CRX, and I have reservations about running them on my car. I torqued that one back together and exchanged it for the set I have now, which was a MAJOR MFPITA to get apart... More on that later.

As it stands, the set I got is very far from working condition... Caliper shields are bent and rusted (splashguards and heat shields), hubs are rusted to all hell, rotors are rusted and crusted (one of which is still stuck to the hub), and both calipers are seized with rust encasing both pistons. I already have new rotors, hubs, caliper seal kits, and pads. But... new caliper pistons + new splashguards + new heat shields = $160. Don't even get me started with hardware...

I haven't fully inspected the calipers. I hope only the piston is bad, but I'm prepared for worse. I don't want to spend another $130-200 for new calipers...

Anyway, I'll have a bunch of before-after pix. If anyone knows of a cheap bead blasting place, LMK. Otherwise, it's WD-40, 3-in-1, 4 wire brushes, and elbow grease. In the end, the schit will be RUST FREE!! I freaking hate rust...

JasonGhostz

Type V

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1394321

i'm having a similar DIY... however, I was told what I purchased (privately) is an EM1 (SiR in Canada) with ABS trailing arm assembly.

why am i also doing a hub/disc to drum swap?

the bushings and bolts are rusted to ****... as well as the calipers and well, the piston doesn't seem to move and seals are looking "dazed"...

i'm planning to buy rebuilt calipers and get some $ back for the core of these crapped up ones.

I took the entire caliper assembley apart to see "how it ticks".

my problem are 2 stripped heads on the TORX bolts and the rotor SCREWS will not BUDGE - even with an impact driver.

have only worked on passenger side.

with midterms coming up, i'm leaving this until oct 29 the earliest to start again.

do'nt have any answers for you JasonGhostz, but thanks for all the info on part numbers :D

best of luck to you and keep us updated!

btw - no real way to check if trailing arms are bent or not... u can only tell once u do a wheel alignment afterwards, another reason i'm willing to just swap hubs and NOT remove my trailing arms.

JasonGhostz

Hiya, Type V. Just read up on your thread, good work... We're doing nearly the same thing, but it sounds like you'll need to get different hubs (ABS hubs have different sizes for their inner races' inner diameter ("Hub Pilot Diameter")). If you plan on replacing your ABS hubs, you'll need Honda P/N 42200-SR3-A53 (I've also seen 42200-SR3-A52 listed for the 92 & 93 CIVIC 4DR EX+ABS).

These hubs (42200-SR3-A53) were used for:
92: Civic 4DR EX+ABS
93: Civic 4DR EX+ABS
94: 3/4DR Integra GS-R/LS, 2DR Civic EX+ABS, 3DR SI+ABS, 4DR EX+ABS
95: 3/4DR Integra GS-R/LS, 2DR Civic EX+ABS, 3DR SI+ABS(?)
95: 3/4DR Integra GS-R/LS

As far as I know, this is all USDM. I am unsure as to how similar CDM/EDM/JDM applications are... (I was told USDM EM1s didn't have ABS as an option). Let us know what you find, and what you do!

Re: your calipers... If you are adventurous enough, Beck-Arnley and Honda sell caliper seal kits. I have 3 OEM kits, just in case I mess one up. Just keep in mind that if you rebuild your calipers yourself, you'll need some snap-ring pliers, and might need a "brake spring compressor" to remove your piston's adjusting bolt.

And if you want them REALLY rebuilt... check out these guys...
http://www.goldlinebrakes.com/index.html
I guess these guys are used to working with "higher end" products, so I'm not sure if it'll be worth it to spend around $160 (each) for brand new, POLYMER COATED calipers... Having only called them for a quote, I'd love to know how their end product performs.

Also **LMK if you find a place that sells the torx head bolts**. The junkyard is the only place I can find them (and off of the donor arms and my project car). If/when you buy some, buy an extra 10 for me (after confirming they are the exact same). On another note, I'm hunting down brand new nylock nuts for the inner spindle shaft (furthest from the wheel). While the ones from the donor arm and/or project car are likely reusable, I'd prefer to have new hardware, particularly for the nylock nuts... I'll let you know if/what I find as well. There are a couple of high-grade hardware stores in my area I haven't gotten around to getting to...

Have a great drive!
JasonGhostz


Modified by JasonGhostz at 3:58 PM 10/13/2005


Modified by JasonGhostz at 7:44 PM 10/13/2005

RedEK9

iTrader: (1)

Damn dude, way to work. Even though i can't help you much with your prob, I do have to appreciate your effort. Good luck

JasonGhostz

Thanks, Red! I guess I won't be needing those spindles after all.

Actually, let me know if you come in touch with any (must be 92-00 Civic, non-ABS, blah..). I might want to rebuild another set to sell later.

I really enjoy working on this stuff. Back in July, the most intensive work I've ever done to any car was changning the oil and air filter. I figure'd I'd start learning the same way I would be modding my car... from the ground up. This site has been a great resource in a great many ways. (can I get a 101% for that, please?)

Anyway, it's been more than 2 months since I made my first purchase toward this conversion thing. Halfway into rebuilding one side, I was finally able to determine the chassis family for the donor arms (the "wrong" one), and decided to finish cleaning things up, reassemble, and return them for what I have now...

So far, I've spent about three times as much as I originally thought I would. But, I'm also including a lot of other maintenance and tool costs in that figure. In the end, It'll probably be about 4 or 5 times what I originally thought...

It's fortunate I'm not caught up in body kits and tail lights (at least, not yet). I'm looking to learn more than how to remove bumper clips, and which non-USDM headlights will fit what orifice. But, most importantly, I want to do this stuff myself. I'll get to the orifice matter later.

Hey Type V... Forgot to mention GL with the midterms. Getting a diploma might not mean much to some people, but it usually matters to the people you ask for jobs. They just want the confidence that you're willing to work hard and scrifice yourself to achieve a goal, and that's exactly what it takes to get a diploma. Best of luck with those matters.

Anyway, GL with that broken bolt. I'm holding off removing the torx head bolts in light of all the broken bolt posts that have been popping up.

JasonGhostz

Player_One

Reviving this thread due to the nature of its interesting-ness. :D I was looking into a drum to disc upgrade on 92-00 Civic trailing arms without removing the spindle. Wondering if it's possible with access to machining tools to create adapters if needed.