hondatek614

So...for the past 5-6 years my car (2000 honda civic SI) has intermittently (sporadically every 3-6 mos, no correlation to hot/cold/humid/dry weather) experienced the INFAMOUS cranks/turns over but will not fire. This usually goes on for less than a day - week.

When I turn the key to position II, it clicks, the fuel pump makes the whirring sound, it clicks again/sound stops, and when the key is turned to position III it clicks again (all normal I believe)

I am currently in another city (Baltimore, MD; I am from Ohio, and have enough tools here to tackle the basics, but not everything I need), and am experiencing this again. I do not have a second person to help me test many things, but...

I did check the coil voltage (negative terminal to spring; it was ok, ~15k), resistance (positive - negative; is was ok, 0.8).

I do not have a test light (need to run to an auto parts store to test the icm; but in this wonderful city the closest store is ~ 5 miles away),

When I tested the blk/yel wire - ground with the key in the ignition II position I got a voltage reading of around 12v (I used the thermostat housing ground, and the valve cover ground with the same results), as well as the same for the wht/blu. I then checked the actual ICM prongs - ground (that the wire/connectors would slide onto) and got 0v (I assume this is ok, since the wires are disconnected).

I pulled the spark plugs to see if they were fouled with fuel (several days of 2-6 times/day trying to start it) and they did not appear wet, or smell of fuel.

What is the best test to see if it is getting fuel?

NOTE: I have a spare main relay, and swapped it in. This made no difference.

BIG QUESTION #1:
If the ignition switch were faulty (it has never died while driving; which to my understanding is the typical story), would it still crank, but not deliver spark/fuel?

BIG QUESTION #2:
anybody in the baltimore area have some time to help? these crowded streets are terrible for working on a car.

BIG QUESTION #3:
again, anyone in the baltimore area have suggestions for a good honda mechanic in the event that i can't figure this one out?

Former User

Test done when engine won't start?

Coil test - did you subtract internal resistance of meter to obtain the 0.8 Ohm reading?

AutoZone tests ICMs for free.

Have you checked for spark when engine won't start?

When engine won't start, remove fuel rail, crank engine, watch for injectors spraying fuel.

Yes. It's possible.

When engine won't start, disconnect starter solenoid so engine won't crank. Hold key in ON(III) position. Does fuel pump run continuously?

hondatek614

Test done with car not actually starting (it has been stranded for 4 days...haha...sigh...)

I did not subtract the internal resistance of the meter, 0.8 ohms was the value the meter showed.

I have not actually pulled a plug to look for spark while trying to start (I need someone to crank the engine...again...haha...sigh...)

About to take my icm to the zone to get it tested (although I know, [B]I should be testing for spark at the plugs).

Thanks for the solenoid tip, I'll try that later after my 10 mile (roundtrip) bike ride to autozone...ugh...90 F out today...prepared to sweat.

Former User

When meter is set to measure resistance exactly like when you made 0.8 Ohm reading, touch the meter probes together. What is the reading?

Put transmission in neutral and set parking brake.

Attach long wire to + battery post. Turn key to ON(II).

Unplug one plug wire; insert new spark plug in end of plug wire; firmly ground plug threads against valve cover.

With other hand, touch hot wire from battery against starter solenoid bolt to crank engine. Hold wire to starter solenoid bolt only long enough to determine whether spark is bright white and then release.

hondatek614

thanks for the reply(ies).

after riding my bike 28 miles to three different autozones to have the icm tested (i needed to pick up a test light and some wire to straight wire the starter for solo testing purposes; figured i'd just have the icm tested since i was spending half my day riding a bike) not a single autozone was able to test the icm.....aaargh. first location didn't have the correct wiring connectors. 2nd location had just been remodeled and their testing machine was broken (the manager even demonstrated using 4 different new icms that it just was reading everything as a "fail"). third location didn't have the testing machine.

so, i rode 14 miles home with a test light and some wire.

my plan was to:
1) reassemble everything into "normal" working order, and do the spark plug "spark" test with the ignition in position II.

2) do a similar test with the test light (alligator clip on the positive battery terminal, and testing tip on the negative terminal of the ignition coil [look for flashing light when cranking; in my mind suggests that the icm is functioning])

3) having already tested the resistance and voltage of the coil, i figured that it was (less) likely that the coil was bad [0.8 ohms, with a 0.2 internal resistance of the multimeter itself], and 12v between the negative terminal on the coil and the spring)

4) if these failed...pull the fuel rail and check for spraying injectors to confirm fuel
any tips on how to not make a mess doing this (for future reference)?

5) i already checked the blk/yel, wht/blu wires that attach to the icm for voltage (should be 12v; mine were 12v)

The next two steps I was hoping to avoid
6) Ignition switch testing, for which i have found many guides online

7) i left this detail out b/c it adds another level of complication to the whole matter...6 years ago my car was broken into and in addition to stealing a lot of random parts, they also cut the wiring harness (where it connects to the ecm). my insurance company, being the typical cheap ***** they usually are, had it soldered back together rather than replaced. i honestly feel that this is most likely the source of the repeated problem, however i have spent a considerable amount of time of the dozen+ times my car has done this jiggling the harness while i try to start the car to see if its a bad solder joint, and it never helps (i know, i should check each wire for continuity, but i work 60-70 hours a week and time is limited). i am considering buying a new harness if i can find one at a halfway decent price (any suggestions besides fleabay?)


So here is the outcome.....drumroll.........

I get home exhausted. Drenched in sweat from cycling to all these stores that didn't help. I get things ready to try out the first few test (9pm, out on a parked up Baltimore street, with a headlamp on...haha), reinstall the icm, and put things back together to do the spark plug test.

I hop in the driver's seat to make sure my battery isn't dead from a week of intermittent attempts to start the car and....it starts, first try, on the first moment of the crank...wtf

i hate my life.

i really hoped to figure this one out b/c i am really sick of my coworkers saying to me "why don't you just buy a cheap reliable car?", when in reality my little civic is a cheap reliable car 99% of the time (i.e. without this problem, it has never broken down otherwise, and besides a wheel bearing around 120k miles it has only needed routine maintenance). additionally it has been to a shop twice in regards to this issue, and both times it fired right up on the first try, and i was smacked with a bill for an hour of labor...frustrating.

Former User

Well, at least you got your car home. Hopefully, you can get the problem to happen again at home. When you do, test spark first.

Former User

Junk yard

hondatek614

thanks.

by "home" i meant to my place in baltimore (i rode a bicycle to several autozones, none of which had working setups to test my icm....aaaarggh). my real tools etc. are back in ohio. all i have with me here are limited handtools, multimeter, not much more.

the car is actually doing it again (cranks but no start), and i think i might just have to have it towed somewhere, b/c i am working ~60 hours a week right now, and just literally don't have the steam to spend endless hours messing with it each evening when i get home.

anyone in the baltimore area have suggestions in regards to a good shop for hondas?

Former User

Post this^ non-technical request in the appropriate Regional forum.

hondatek614

oh yeah, i should also add that it is not throwing any codes (i.e. the CEL is turning off after the initial ~2 sec).

hondatek614

i know this is an old thread...

so, i ended up having my car towed somewhere, and of course, it fired right up.

since august it has only sporadically had the issue (again no temp/humidity correlation).

but!

I am fairly certain I did find a positive correlation:

When I unlock the car with the key fob, and when the door is opened it typically makes a single beep (the beep it makes when keys are in the ignition and the door is opened). This sounds for under a second, driver hops in, keys inserted, clutch depressed, turn the key, and the car starts....

I am fairly certain it is NOT making this single beep when the door is opened during events when it cranks but will not start. Could this point to something related to it having been broken into a number of years ago? Anyone know if this points to something that might be shorting out or some kind of vehicle disabling function?

Thanks!

hondatek614

I forgot to update this a long time ago...

This was a drawn out story with a pretty straight forward end.

Every time I attempted to test the coil/igniter, the process of fiddling with things would temporarily "fix" the intermittent problem (and they would test normal). After having the car towed to shops (twice), and it starting right up (and getting billed $60-75 for "diagnostic" work...) it finally happened again...and would not start at all, even after multiple days sitting/trying to start. I was finally able to catch the igniter not functioning. For those who are not familiar, the coil and igniter are two common "no spark" culprits. So...all said and done..replaced the igniter ~2 years ago and the problem has not popped back up since.

***Ignore all the voodoo I spoke of in the last post...haha

JoLynn

This is in no way funny, but I just laughed my *** off at your story!! What a bunch of BS you went through (on your bike) Glad it started up for you. Hope all is well with the car after this many years.