ls joker

Seriously

Mjalaly

Yup... 1200miles on that build. She was running a bit hotter than I like all day, around 205-210deg. I figured that was because iys 97deg outside. I was on my way home, and all of a suden the temp skyrocketed so I pulled over and left the fan running. She cooled down a bit, got about 2 blocks and I heard her knocking so I pulled over and called the tow truck.

For some reason the IAT was also running much hotter with the new bigger intercooler.

Mjalaly

Hummmm... no coolant in the oil and the spark plugs look fine. I will try to do a compression test tomorrow.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

What radiator and fans? This is most uncommon. My sister still runs a b16 turbo with the same turbocharger as you (except for it is the ball bearing model) for over 8 years and 45,000 miles at 312whp. Bone stock engine and transmission. Something is up

Mjalaly

The radiator is custom with a spal fan. It has never had a problem cooling. Generally it runs around 195 at the engine and 180 at the radiator. Not coolong is something new to me too.

I am also not sure if something got screw up at the shop since they pulled the engine to get the tranny out... only way it can be done on my car. I also don't know why the IAT was so much higher. With the old smaller intercooler the temp was around 117 but with the new intercooler the temps were around 135. Maybe the lager surface area made it more prone to heat soak?

Either way the shop is going to look at it. He said if the bottom end is toast, he can hook me up with a block with a stroker carnk. Not sure if the stroker crank is a good idea or not.

I need to dig into the engine more to see what is going on. Is it possible to overheat the engine and warp the bottom end without having coolant go into the oil? I assume a cracked sleeve would allow coolant and oil to mix. Anything else I should test apart from compression? The next step would be to take the oil pan off to check things out if the engine won't turn over.

LightningTeg

No I think you need to find a reputable shop that knows Honda. Him suggesting a stroker crank immediately raises red flags for me. Everything you are doing can be done on a bone stock motor day in and out.

Mjalaly

Yeah but that isnt the situation. Either i send it back to them to have them fix it and spend little money, tell my wife that even though we just spent 2.2K for work on it i will need to spend another 2-4k more on it at another random shop (which i don't have the heart to do to her), or sit without a car for a while.

the latter seems the most likely.

I have rebuilt one engine in my life so i can probably do it... but i am always hesitant. I really need to get in there and see what is wrong.

might be an option
https://denver.craigslist.org/pts/5642208417.html

2kdrift

Definetly, I would never run a "stroker" kit. LS/VTEC is the stoker kit in our world anything else is not at all necesarry.

your tuner is the one recomending the new block? do you have any good machine shops in your area?

Im thinking perhaps they didnt fully bleed the system, I would try to rebleeed and see if it overheats or not, only thing that worries me here is the "knocking" you decsribed

Mjalaly

No i am pretty sure the bottom end is dead. Right now it wont start up and there was a **** ton of blow-by out of the crankcase (back of block) before i shut her down. Again, i still need to tear into her to see what is going on. It was suggested that the bottom end may have failed causing it to overheat all of the sudden vs the opposite. If i need to do bottom end work then i want to look at something else as well. My options are (i may or may not be able to use the upgraded rods and pistons in my b16 pending damage):

1) built up b16
2) b16 with a 84mm stroke crank
3) stock ls block

also, there are a few machine shops near by but they mainly deal with domestic stuff. the ones that work on honda stuff (there is like 2 of them), as of this morning are 4mo out.

2kdrift

crazy....Yeahh I think first step is to take it apart and see what broke.

didnt you want more displacement/stroke anyway?

Nows your chance to get something with more low end torque
if so that CL posting sleeved block looks like the clear winner, make sure you check it out and make sure its what he says it is


...so your first motor blew on the dyno second motor which is built only lasted 1200 miles....is this both at the same shop doing the tunning?

Mjalaly

Yeah she is toast. the engine is locked up and there are metal bits in the oil pan. i am betting, but i have not confirmed, that the oil pump went and took the engine with it.

anyone want to suggest a bottom end? I assume that the pistons and rods are still good... maybe.

Should i just toss in a b18? Or is the B16 with the stroke crank better?

boosted94gsr

Find a stock ls or even b20 block to swap in there.

Mjalaly

Honestly I would like to replicate this build.

Shodan, how similar is that turbo to mine?

I really don't have much control over the type of mani since the spoolin log is the only thing that fits my car. I will also be using the built b16 head that I have.

LightningTeg

I've been itching to say this, but that is a no brainer to me.

Mjalaly

i had a b20 but i sold it since i read they were not very strong. And i am trying to figure out the best combination to where i can use the nice pistons and rods that have.

so its either a b16 with a stroke crank (84mm i think), my rods with new pistons or an ls block with new rods and my pistons. My tuner has everything on hand for the first setup.

I ma kind of wondering if my non baffled oil pan was an issue considering how hard i drive it in the turns. Either way i am going to add baffles, a pressure gauge and maybe an accusump too.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

The GT3251 Cast wheel is similar to the S252 cast, but the "batmowheel" variant kinda hurts midrange due to its design. The turbine wheel of the S252 in either cast or Batmowheel variant are the same.

The GT3251 on the compressor side has a larger inducer and exducer than the S252, but slightly smaller turbine wheel exducer and inducers.

Basically, the compressor wheel of GT3251 is more responsive for torque and initial response, even by 21-22psi, but the S252's turbine wheel has larger top end power at higher boost pressures over 25psi than the GT3251 by about 30whp.

2kdrift

Hah I wouldnt go that far its prolly the trans that makes it look good that and my engine, It drives great but im finding my tuner is actually kinda horrible so I dont trust anything from him at this point.

Just found a tuner 100x better. I retune next weekend

Mjalaly

she is out and on the way up to the shop....its nice that it only takes 1/2hr to remove the whole engine.






As a side note... this is what happens when you spend days engineering something really well and some idiot (me) forgets to put a spacer in.




that bearing area should be round and not deformed.

Mjalaly

any suggestions on which oil pump to use?

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

We typically stay with stock. Especially for your power requirements. There are some options to that, however.

1) A more robust oil pump gear TODA-RACING. If you run an external oil cooler of some kind and really plan on circuit racing this car, then the TODA RACING pump gear is a good thing to switch out to. (I have one myself on 2 cars that circuit).

This pump gear doesn't change the amount of oil volume, it is simply a gear that replaces the stock one in the stock oil pump assembly with a stronger forged metal and not the sinistered metal that the OEM uses. This means no change of break down in which the gear is shattered over high stress situations. It's pricey, but it's a nice thing to have since the rest of the OEM pump assembly is very robust.

2) ENDYN OEM oil pump modification. Again, since your power levels and use aren't that large, this isn't really necessary, but may help your piece of mind.

Endyn actually modifies the OEM oil pump (Must be a new unit) by enlarging the inlet/outlet bores, and machine clearance the oil by-pass valves. This really is more for higher rpm situations like 10,000rpms +, so again, not necessary in your case. I'm not sure if they do this anymore but check them out, it's like $159 AND a new pump to perform the procedure.

Endyn's Oil Pump procedure

Either way, in your case, OEM is the way to go. There's no need for an electric sump in your case. Keep it simple. You've got enough to worry about right now with the rebuild, the right tuner, and assembly.

Mjalaly

yeah thats what i though reading one of your other posts. I would love to toss on a dry unit on but that is pricey. Apart from a shattered oil pump, is there anyway of telling what caused the issue? My tuner is going to take a look once i swing the engine up to him.

Think the CTR pulley had anything to do with it? I know its a very debatable hot topic.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

That depends upon the old intercooler vs. new intercooler construction type. Simply because you had a larger core doesn't necessarily mean that it was going to run any more efficiently. See the write-up I have on intercoolers.

Let's talk Intercoolers!!!

Company and type core make a HUGE difference in heat exchange efficiency and IATs.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

CTR pulley could be part of the culprit. I would determine that it would be considered as a factor, if nothing else.

Truthfully, could be a multitude of things that were added, including engine block component assembly. Until you tear it apart and document the damage, all we can do is speculate blind at this point.

I definitely would not follow the idea of using some stroker crank for the B16A engine you have. You've been given suggestions on some tried/true/practiced/perfected means of increasing displacement for the acceleration and torque rates you're looking for, using OEM blocks and crankshafts (which are the most reliable for what you need, and really, it's not that expensive,) it's just a matter of not listening to these other people unless one of their specialties is to work Honda Engines specifically.

Don't continue to fall for these guys that want to give you bad aftermarket company parts on a "deal". (The reason they're selling it for that is because they couldn't use it, either, since everyone else in "the know" understands not to use them.. ) The same formulas that have been on this site for the last 15 years, really haven't changed on the B-series, which includes, but is not limited to:

GSR Engine Block (Stock sleeved, or sleeved or CSS'd which ever you prefer) -
LS/B20 Crankshaft
Oil Squirter removal (No, it won't help with them on Aftermarket forged pistons, and can be another accident waiting to happen)
Competent Engine builder to clearance it all
Competent tuner (I think you finally at least solved that one..
Check Intercooler for fin type/company / size (See article)
Clean out ALL oil lines NOW.. so that any engine debris from the destruction doesn't get into the turbocharger later.. (Trust me on this)

Mjalaly

Both were from CX racing since i could get the right size core that fit my area. The first one was this one
cxracing.com: Front Mount Intercooler 19"x6"x2.5",Core Size 12"X6"X2",2.5" Inlet & Outlet

the new one is this design with the inlet/outlet clocked 90° which you can kind of see on the one of the previous pics where the car is on the tow truck.
cxracing.com: Front Mount Intercooler 26"x10"x3", 3" Core: 19"x6"x3", 2.5"Up Inlet,2.5"Low Outlet

the though process is was that the vertical flow would be more efficient. Also it is a bit thicker, longer and is bar/plate vs tube/fin. I don't really know how much of the engines running issue had to do with the higher IATs either. It may actually work better once everything is running right.

fitting an intercooler on my car is pretty much a nightmare since i need it to fit a certain area. Worth a try for $100 though. After i get it up and running i can try swapping them out to see how things change.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Yep. that article talks about that company. We've had as much as 8psi pressure drop, and two destroyed cores from that company. They were NEVER efficient. You actually had better luck with some of the Treadstone stuff than those.. (again, in the article).

You want efficient cold air exchange? Get Garrett, Bell, ETS, or even Treadstone (last resort) before ever considering anything else. It's all in the article.