GreatwhiteDC2

Im so bummed right now i would really like some opinions on what would have caused a spun bearing at startup.

Info on the car
81.5mm gsr block
Probe forged dome pistons w/ eagles
Honda main and acl rod bearings
Gsr head w/ full supertech vt
Gsr cams
Thicker headgasket to lower cr

This engine was built for turbo. I have my turbo accessories but decided to start it up on n/a with stock ecu for the piston seating. Put all fluids in and checked for leaks. Then i cranked it up(it did not start up)and my buddy found a fuel leak. We fixed that then cranked it some more for oil to register thru the engine. It finally started up and thats when i heard the knock. Well i thought it was a tick because the last time i heard a knock it was way louder than this. I let it ran for 30 mins then turned it off. During its idle around 800-1000rpm the knock was in sync with the idle. But the engine would then drop idle to about 500-600 rpm, possible leak somewhere i guess. Then idle would raise and the knock would vanish. Just for a couple of mins. Then it would repeat process.

I thought it was just piston slap since i never heard piston slap before. I texted my engine builder and he said it might just be the lmas. I then called him and let him hear the noise thru the phone. And he said it was definitely knock. We are both curious to how this happened. I will be returning the block to him to inspect. But i would like some opinions from you ht.

What do you think went wrong? Did i do the startup wrong? It was my first time attempting a fresh built start up. Please let me know what you think even if its a harsh comment. I can take a beating. Just dont blame my builder. He is excellent at what he does and i can vouch for him on anything he does.

rvn2svn

I think you shouldn't have let it idle for 30 minutes when you heard a noise that you didn't understand. I also think a stock ECU is a bad idea unless your setup is basically identical to a stock gsr motor(compression/injector size etc etc etc).Next time have your engine builder there when you fire it up the first time. How do you know it's a bearing problem if you haven't taken the block apart? Did you have an oil pressure gauge hooked up while it was idling? Knocks are hard to diagnose without pictures of internal components.

I would suggest two things. First fix any mechanical problems. Second, get some engine management on that bad lad and tow it to a tuner.

Best of luck man. Mistakes happen, parts break. I put a headgasket upside down on an engine, it's how you learn. Hopefully your builder made a silly mistake and idling it for that long didn't do too much damage. Once he gets it taken apart get some pics.

tepid1

So the engine builder may have messed up, but you don't want anyone to blame him? lol

Did you check V2V and P2V clearances?

GreatwhiteDC2

Sorry. Didnt mean to put "spun bearing" in the title. I meant engine knock. But from what i read on this site, it said let it idle for 30 mins so the rings will seat. Ill post pics when i can. Again sorry for misleading title.

4piston

Look at the bearings. Probably missing a plug in an oil galley and didn't have any oil pressure.

turbohatch96y7

iTrader: (15)

Drop the pan check rod caps you probably left one loose or something.

Should've never let it idle so long that bearing is probably beat to **** by now.

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

What did you use for assembly lube?
Are your clearances within spec?
Were all bearings installed correctly?
Was everything torqued to spec properly?
What oil and filter did you use for first startup?
New or used oil pump? What was initial startup pressure?

Running the car for 30 minutes with it making a loud noise on a fresh build was not smart. You multiplied the potential component damage exponentially. I wouldn't be surprised if at the very least the crank is beyond reusable.

Best thing to do is pull the pan with the motor in the car and check for debris in the pan, signs of bearing failure (heat scorched rod caps/mains, signs of bearing failure like flattening of the bearing (where it sticks out of the journal), scoring etc)) also make sure everything was torqued properly.

Also cut the oil filter open and check the filter media for debris.

Also are you sure mechanical timing was properly set and you used a new tensioner and timing belt properly tensioned?
Was distributor properly timed?
What engine management are you using?

Last but not least

Are you sure you put a gasket between the oil pump and pickup? I've seen it left out numerous times and most of the time it results in component failure

Lots of questions that need to be answered.

EG1834

Drain oil and cut open filter. That'll tell you if the bearings are toast.

DDTECH

Did you prime the engine....?..

Stock ecu?.. dumb.

Oil pressure gauge?..

GreatwhiteDC2

alright to clear things up, i started the engine up N/A. that means the turbo kit was not on it at all. it had an intake and my jg header on. fuel inj. were also stock. my engine compression is just a tad higher than stock. it would have been at 11:1 or higher but we decided to run a thicker gasket to drop compression at close to stock as possible. i will cut the oil filter open and check when i can.

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

Why build an 11:1 motor then use a thicker headgasket to drop compression back to stock? seems like a waste to me... plenty of people have run compression ratios from 10:1 - 13.5:1 on high horsepower pump gas/e85 setups (as well as water/meth on a few) without issue.

You need to start doing what we told you, pull the pan, cut the filter open... Check for debris/metal fragments then go from there... Like pulling the pump and checking for gear damage, any material in the pickup... Then pull the main and rod caps and check for bearing/rod/crank damage and then figure out what went wrong, how to repair it, then try again

Tony the Tiger

There's nothing wrong with using a stock ECU if the car is running on stock injectors, mild compression bump and up to a relatively mild set of cams. Just to be safe, you can retard base timing a few degrees for start up.

I am sure most guys would have a wideband anyway to make sure AFR's are within range. I recommend this to people all the time and it worked well for many years FYI.

To the OP, besides letting the engine run for so long with a loud knocking sound, your start up procedure otherwise, is totally fine. I would now question the actual engine and whether it had oil pressure throughout the entire 30 mins of running.

Did you have an oil pressure gauge?

motoxxxman

these are my two questions as well.

from what you described, it does not sound like you primed the motor. in which case it ran completely dry and with zero oil pressure for at least several seconds upon initial startup, which that alone can destroy the bearings, especially a cold start where it idles high.

also, you said the idle speed keept dropping and coming back up randomly. that makes me assume it had moments of time with little to no oil pressure, and the rpms were dropping at each time there was no oil pressure and too much friction.

I'd say answer the above two questions first, then strip the motor down to find what actually is damaged and why.

boostlsveg

iTrader: (12)

Did u drop that pan yet op?

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

guessing no

GreatwhiteDC2

Sorry guys. I work 6 days a week. Finally dropped the pan today and found tiny flakes floating at the bottom of the pan. And Wantboost is a genius because he may have guess it right. I left out my oil pump/pickup gasket.

Is that gasket the reason for the oil starvation?
I did not have a oil pressure gauge with me atm of the startup. That was a noob mistake made by me.

I will be returning the block to my builder so we can see how much damage was caused. I just pray she can still be saved!!

GreatwhiteDC2

Also the reason i drop the compression was just for peace of mind. I understand that running a high compresion turbo build would be more enjoyable, but i found i was more comfortable having it near stock compression because this car will be on 93 octane only.

I will be running a stc silver surfer(gen 1) with an inlinepro ss manifold. Deciding if this manifold will benefit my build or should i opt for a better manifold and sell this one?

ferio-ichi3

Damn man, that sucks! What is the damage? Im looking to do a turbo high comp build also. I didnt even know the oil pick up even had a gasket.

kculfoelcric

Let us know when you get the diagnosis from your builder.

ferio-ichi3

soo, whats going on OP?

motoxxxman

yeah, some have gaskets and some have O-rings. if it's missing, it'll suck air through the gap instead of oil through the sump

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

See just how good I am?

without that gasket you'd have severe issues with getting oil into the motor and keep it pressurized