Accordian47

This is my no expense spared, n/a build list for the H22a4 in my BB6.
After making this I realized, for the same money I could probably make more power going the f/i route but I'm not sure what this build would make. I'm honestly thinking 280 or so.
I'm just wondering what you guys think I should include or remove and what you think the setup would make, given a good tune:

2001 Honda Prelude (BB6 Chassis)
2.2Liter DOHC VTEC H22A4
2156cc (131.6cu.in.)
290cc Saturated Fuel Injectors @ 47-54 PSI
10:1 Compression Ratio
197hp @ 7,000rpm
156 lb. ft. @ 5,250rpm
Bore: 87.0mm (3.425”)
Stroke: 90.70mm (3.571”)

Build List
Pistons: CP Forged (SC7131) 87.00mm / 11.5:1 CR
Cams: Skunk2 Ultra Series Stage 3
Cam Gears: Skunk2 Adjustable
Valves: Skunk2 Alpha Series Valves
Valve Springs and Retainers: Skunk2 Alpha Series Springs and Ti Retainers
Headgasket: Cometic MLS
Header: Vibrant Stainless 4-2-1 Race Header
Cat-Back: Skunk2 MegaPower 60mm
Management: OBDI P28 ECU Running Hondata S300
Fuel System:

• OEM Acura RDX 410cc Fuel Injectors
• AEM Fuel Rail
• Turbosmart FPR-1200v2 Fuel Pressure Regulator
• Turbosmart Fuel Pressure Gauge

Intake System: Skunk2 Intake Manifold and Throttle Body, Hondata Intake Manifold Gasket
Ignition: MSD Digital 6 (6520) Ignition and MSD Blaster HVC2 Coil
Head Work by PortFLow:

• Disassemble/ Clean/ Inspection
• Port & Polish
• Newen CNC Radius Valve Job
• De-Shroud Valves & Polish Chambers
• Surface Deck To Mirror Finish & Debur Edges
• Assembly / New Seals Included
• Bronze Valve Guides

The total is around $7,600

the171

I think you'd be doing well on the build at 235hp

to get to 280hp you would need much more displacement or very high compression and race fuel.

I dont see why going with cp pistons would make sense in this case. Mahle has a similar compression 87mm piston which works in the stock block. Heck you could accomplish the same thing with a type s piston. It would make sense to sleeve and run that kind of piston if you want more bore or racing compression.

for 280+ hp id go with a 100mm crank. Or at least a f23 97mm crank. Most likely open header. And a car light enough to go fast.

Accordian47

I have been curious as the what the power limitations are for an h22 on 93 octane. Thats probly what I'd run. A higher cr, 12:1+ would be one of the first thing required to make n/a power on the h22 but like you said, Id need race fuel. A larger bore and/or stroke is probably next in line but even then it would require re-sleeving and cost a ton of $ for a fairly low power gain. Id want the car to be streetable so I wouldnt be able to run an open header which further limits the potential power to be made. I could run type-s pistons or the Mahle pistons of a stock bore and a 93 octane safe cr, itd keep me from having to resleeve but the power gains just wouldnt be worth it.

To me its starting to seem like building an n/a motor for power is for those who are dead set on all motor (which is bada**) AND have no budget. Those who dont mind spending $7k just to make 80hp tops. Im definitely not against it and its cool as hell. Certainly to be respected because of the challenge of n/a building but id rather go forced induction for the $

k20z1ej1

Thats likely not gonna make 280whp. Maybe 280bhp. I think on a dynojet you can make 240-260whp with a really good tuner

B20VtecVillain

I think your really looking at this the wrong way. Your not going to get a very streetable package with a 280-300whp NA H. It just isn't practical. If you want that kind of power and good street manners just run a little t3/t4 system on the stock engine and call it a day. If you want a good NA street engine, just do a basic H build, maybe a slight over Bore and 12:1 pistons, good cams, port or get the head ported, good header like SMSP, Myers etc with 3" exhaust. , ID 1000s and run E85 on a good tune and be close to 250whp and prolly 160+wtq. Even on 93 it would make 230+ at the wheel. That's close to your 280 figure at the crank. Put that in a light chassis and it will scream and be faster then a 300whp boosted engine in the same car. If you get into a full stroker crank, fully built engine etc then have to water it down to run in street legal trim just doesn't make sense.

k20z1ej1

Dont underestimate the power a stock block h22/h23 can make either. There are guys running low 11's, and i think a couple in the 10's, on stock block h2b setups. They invest serious money into headwork and induction (i.e. 4 piston pro h22 head and Kinslers with Pro 3s) and run race gas. For a street car i wouldnt run pro 3s or methanol, but you could make really good power with e85, pro2s and a RBC or ultra race manifold, all while staying streetable.

AZ_CIVIC

iTrader: (1)

BINGO - I was 100% all about N/A along time aog until I wised up, there is nothing wrong with guys who shoot for going N/A, especially guys who are willing to push limits and break records or just want a little extra pep. For the average guy who wants a quick car, forced induction cars go faster for less. I see pieces of shart at the track with junk *** motors, stock transmissions with half assed setups running low 11's these days. To get an N/A setup to run 11.0 is going to take a lot more work then a forced induction setup.

For example say you have 2 identical 2000 Civics both with stock GSR swaps and you give both 3k. 1 uses that money on a forced induction setup and the other an N/A build, I guarantee the forced induction car at the end of the day will make more power and be faster than the N/A guy.

2LEM1

iTrader: (1)

You're only as fast as the power you can put to the ground, and Hondas suck at putting power to the ground.

HP for HP, an N/A car will always be faster than a boosted car.

AZ_CIVIC

iTrader: (1)

When an N/A FWD drive Honda non wheelie bar car starts running 7.6's @ over 200 mph like Speedfactory than I will believe that.

k20z1ej1

I think he's saying that a 2500lb, 400whp all motor civic would be faster than a 2500lb, 400whp turbo Honda. That being said, I agree with your previous post- HP to $ ratio, turbo wins every time. A 20k build would barely be competitive in the 99mm all motor class, whereas a 20k turbo build could prob crack high 8s. The OP would prob be happier with a mild 350 whp turbo car than a 250whp Na car, having both cost abt the same.

AZ_CIVIC

iTrader: (1)

I understand what he is saying but with a 4 banger Honda motor you can only squeeze so much N/A power out of those. Yes and you get my point on cost to power ratio for forced induction vs N/A. If he has a 7k budget he will be able to build a quick turbo car.

ojasia

H's suck on boost and youll lose reliability, sell the good H, swap to a F20b and lower the cr. for boost route for cheapest power per $ you can get them for under
a thousand, they have forged piston compatible sleeves, a fresh hone and swap will make it boost friendly. So really $ for engine, $ for pistons, $ for machining. Money back on H
= cheapest route power per $ then NA H, or H boosted (in the long run, it will fail)

I doubt your setup youll make your goal. I had similiar H built setup n made 230whp but with only pro1 cams. without a legit
port job tho. you can over cam it all you want the air most likely will be restricted by stock ports or the lower cr your planning will not make those cams come alive.

if going baller with the cams youll want to go much higher on the cr. then your planning. and if your dailying it wont be practical at that point, with gas and or mid range.
build the engine around the cams, or lower your cam profile to your engine build, you can always modify and upgrade other aspects for flow/performance. IE ITBS, Exhuast. Spray, cam degree tuning, fuel.

Accordian47

So this is what im gathering:
n/a is like, the way to go...It is an accomplishment, its staying true and concurring. It takes more $ to make the same power as compared to a forced induction setup but they have better driving characteristics. n/a builds deserve mad respect and make a fair amount of power.
Some n/a setups are street-able, others are not. There are full out n/a builds that use super aggressive cams and headwork etc. that are not very street friendly.

In terms of $, performance, and driveibility, the order kinda goes:

1. Mildly built n/a setups (bolt ons etc.)
2. Basic turbo or supercharger setups
3. Fully built n/a setups
4. Fully built turbo or supercharger setups

Accordian47

I've heard H series motors are not very boost friendly. So slapping on a t3/t4 isn't a great idea. H series have high c/r's and frm cylinder liners.
They can only handle a small amount of power over stock. They also really lose alot of reliability after boost and that just ruins what Hondas are all about.
I would say that sleeving is a very good idea prior to any boost at all, then your building the motor completely with rods and pistons.