JDM_JNKY

iTrader: (4)

VERY NICE! Been a while since I've seen some technical planning going around. If your still looking for headers LMK. I may have some cost effective big HP solutions for you. I have 3 headers, and I'm not sure which one I'll use for my build, LOL. But your more than welcome since your further along to take a look at them an possibly buy one.

Best of Luck,
Joel

vtecmaster85

Now try say pro2, pro3, m22xx, or m24xx and post results! 😁

Frankacura

next year Jun 3 or Toda Vtec Killer if...

Frankacura

The dauntless B20Vtec is ready.
Now if the rain wheater can give a brake and let the sun shine.

DDTECH

JUN's aren't any larger or a better cam then the Toda's. The Toda vteckillers are just a price stake, they will produce no better power then say a pro2 or pro3. Dont waste your time with anything else he listed, its not worth the time..

Look at a PRO2 type camshaft as a step up, or contact myself.

Frankacura

Thanks for the information
But i just dislike Skunk product
The finish quality is just not at the same level as Jun or Toda parts.
I wont extend on S2 quality but as exemple you can find lots of S2 valves end badly wear by rocker friction.
the cams lobes shown irregular wear on them, Rockers friction point is mooving from the left to right side of the cams lobes.
S2 Cams BROKE...
S2 Throttle body Suck at IDLE ( bearing plate )

On the other hand Toda is a HONDA brother's.
They will care about the product quality and durability.
I know Toda B cams are not the bigest to make power at high rpm,
But they are torque champion,
and if you can't rev high to make your hp, then you are better have a bunch of torque
I have been told that my motor wont make 240-250Whp cuz my Toda Cams are not big enough.
But will see
On a cam spec as 12.1mm lift and 265 degre duration at .05 it does not indicate the lobe ramp speed.
Maybe ill go with a custom grind cam...

here is my Toda spec, and some other.
Toda Spec B's
INTAKE lift - 12 mm, duration 250 @1mm
EXHAUST lift - 12mm, duration 250 @1mm


Stage II SKUNK2 Pro's)
INTAKE lift- 12.3 mm, duration 266 @ 1mm
EXHAUST lift - 11.8 mm, duration 262 @ 1mm



Jun Type 3
INTAKE lift - 12.0 mm, duration 265 @ 1mm (Advertised 304)
EXHAUST lift - 11.5 mm, duration 265 @ 1mm (Advertised 304)


Rocket M25

INTAKE lift - 12.1 mm, duration 270 @ 1mm
EXHAUST lift - 12.1 mm, duration 270 @ 1mm

DDTECH

Pro3's will make more then any camshaft you listed

I wish people would realize there's more to a camshaft, then lift and duration.

Frankacura

but you agree that jun 3 cams will make more power than my Toda B cams.
and that Toda B are bit small cams for my 95mm stroker.
Dont you ?
I can see 15-20Whp gain using the Jun 3 cams. without Torque lost.
Jun type 3 is designed to peak HP at higher rpm
so should use an shorter intake or ITB, that will also help to gain even more hp.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

The Jun3 may make more peak power for the dyno, but not much more in torque than the Pro2.

That's why skunk made these products, because they go a bit above for peak power in a drag racing situation than any of the Toda Racing and Jun Auto series.

I originally had Jun3 on my NA car, then Buddy club (good Japanese company to look into as well, if you don't want skunk2), went back to Toda B for best powerband. But my application is for circuit/street

vtecmaster85

What's wrong with anything else I listed?

Frankacura

hahaa so first day tuning the motor at the track.
engine run great
AFR is fixt at 12.4 - 12.6:1 WOT so...

I could not hold myself anymore and i went down the track WOT
I'm using the Radial tires 215/50/15 that are bit big for me,
First pass 12.7@112.4Mph 2.3 60 foots

Im a lill upset by the power drop that i feel at 8500rpm, but i can see that fuel values at 8500rpm are still high and AFR 12.4 so power must be there.

I'm using a Fuel mixture that provide me 99% Octane (RON/MON) as street fuel with 25% Ethanol
My CR is 12.5:1 95mm stroke... and ignition timing was 27 at 7000 - 8000rpm so i raise it till 29 and went down again.
I ran 12.5 @113.8Mph 2.2 60 foots and 8.1s 88mph 1/8
but still shifting at 8400rpm
I'm not use to high Octane and Ethanol
But i can see that there is a lot of work to do on that motor to make it be what he is going to be.

Now installing PLM V2 (Bisi) headers,
Lowering back the ignition timing at 27 and go back to
the track see if AFR can go LEANER side at 8000rpm .

I'm gonna buy myself new tool to make the tuning easyer...
EGT Digital PMD1XT Pyrometer Gauge + Probe Kit - Diesel Race Series DF

vtecmaster85

Just try some pro 3 or something with about 270 dur or more. You have the crank to utilize it, give it more air.

Frankacura

I do have Toda 140 + 60 psi Springs in this GSR head
it wont handle
But i have another GSR head already ported that will be built on chromoly 160 + 150 psi springs
we did not play whit the cams gears yet... IDLE is just to nice to be powerfull, this motor have torque from 2500rpm
The set up im running now is streetable

vtecmaster85

Ah Ok. Yea my setup with m24xx idled like stock and have good torque outside of vtec. The primaries pulled hard all the way to 120 ish mph at about 50% throttle and kept going. Here in the future I am getting either a 92mm or 95mm crank.

Frankacura

More tune to come...

2LEM1

iTrader: (1)

More proof you have no clue what you're doing.

Frankacura

I know i was just waiting 4 you to give me the right way to do it...

Frankacura

By the way
Why you jump on people thread and tell them that they are doing wrong
against give a hand ?? is this the way you show your knowledge
Or, is what i did wrong is to tell you what i am going to make as test on the motor ???

PyroProblem

Do you plan on tuning ignition on a dyno So you can find MBT at every rpm point?

2LEM1

iTrader: (1)

Because you didn't ask a question, you posted that "many myths will be busted", and keep harping about how you have this secret formula to make huge power from mediocre and obscure parts selection.

The Bisi replica is junk. Just like the piece of garbage it was copied off of. But, you obviously want to test things out for yourself, which is fine, and admirable, but to think you have the magic formula figured out for Honda motors is laughable.


I appreciate that you have spent ample time reading and researching things, and you very well may have some interesting ideas, but if you posted in a more humble demeanor and asked for people's opinions then I think you'd end up with more help than rude remarks.

Not to mention 'butt dynos' and track times are great, but what we'd really like to see is dyno testing. You can tell a lot from a power curve. And for you to throw a bunch of parts at a motor and tell us "it feels better" at a certain RPM is just... bad.

Hopefully there's no hard feelings, like I said, I appreciate your enthusiasm and the willingness to document things, just try to be a little more humble and willing to learn. You forget some of us have literally been doing this for over 10 years.

Frankacura

Well i dont see where im talking about magic formula
I am even telling every parts that im using...
If the Bisi Headers is Junk 4 You its ok but i saw B motor 300Whp using Bisi header...
If i sayd that the motor is not pushing at that rpm is cuz its not tuned and i just want to let people know that it was not real pull till 9200rpm...
If you want to pay the dyno session all do as much as you want
My Thread is to compare the 175TQ i did on Crower to the TQ i will make on Toda... ( using same CR, throttle and stroke )
I also have been told that i dont know what im doing when i did the NonVtec motor, But still to me a B20Z stock PHK pistons that make 220Whp and run 11.4@116mph the guy must know a lill...
from mediocre and obscure parts selection. That you say... Are you talking about my Eagle crank. rod
or Wiseco pistons
the Toda Cams Maybe ? or the Toda springs ???
Is the stock valves are mediocre parts compare to S2 6000 series ???
If i ask question about my throttle the answeer will be PUT a 74 mm... But what my 62mm will do ??? 62mm TB is able to 325HP
Its not cuz you dislike my 62mm throttle body that i will start the test with that i wont change it
I sayd that i will Try Toda headers also.. bisi is only a step.. is that wrong ??
I believe that 62mm can make 260Whp and that Toda B Cams can also make it... so we will just see...
see you

Frankacura

Hi Pyro
Yess it will end up on the Dyno for sure
but at first i will tune the AFR on rich side
cams gears
i will find the best timing spot 5-7000rpm 7-9000rpm
i will run the motor to 7000rpm and find the timing, some other run 9000rpm

PyroProblem

Don't you think it's better to tune ignition on the dyno vs track mph?
Should Be strong once everything is fine tuned. Good luck!

Frankacura

I think the ignition timing must be readjust after the dyno at the track with the real engine load on real action.
If the dyno say 32 degree to make 250Whp
but the track give you 2 more MPH at 30... will you keep 32 ???

PyroProblem

In my opinion, I don't see any gains to be had once you found peak torque/MBT on the dyno. The engine is tuned for max power at all load points at all rpms. In regards to ignition timing Mainly..
But I think you have more experience than me So hopefully you can teach me something new.

Do you have any pictures of any notching of the block or girdle if it was required with your 95mm crank?