Frankacura

Hi everyone,
I think it would be interesting to make some compare with the great crower 62404 Non Vtec cams and the Torque offer by the Famous TODA B CAMS,
In here we will only see the torque compare
Because the 2 first Stroker motors built have not been machined properly, they did not make the real HP they where able to.
But the motor showed a great torque numbers on Crower Non Vtec cams,
so i will use them, to make a compare with the new built that will use GSR head, same 62mm throttle body and a ported GSR intake manifold.
Of course you can say that, there where differences in temperature and tuning and other stuff that affect the power,
But this is going to be what i have been able to get out from those Non vtec 404 compare to the power that i will get from the toda B cams,

So the first built was as this:
B20b block decked 5 tow bored 84.5mm 11.7:1CR pistons
Eagle 95mm crank and rods
Tri-Y Big tube headers
P8R ported head shaved 30 tow.
Type R IM and 62mm TB
Crower 62404 cams/Springs ( Not Dial in) but Cams gears tuned in the street tune.
650cc clinick inj.
Tuned on CROME
Made: 175tq and only 215 poor Whp ( motor destroying the crank berings)

Note how the tq drop pass 6000rpm




And here is a Dyno graph from the same stroked b20 block
but my Vtec GSR head/intake and Type R cams
make 178tq and only 220Whp

Note how the tq drop again pass 6000rpm peak HP@ 7100rpm LOLOLOL LMFAO
we made 3 pass and the crank broke...



This is the same head i will use, but now will use the Toda B cams.

The new built details will come soon
see you later for more

Chugger

What was machined incorrectly?

What rod lengths did you use on the first 2 set ups and what are you using this go round?

DDTECH

Toda b's should make more, they are a single pattern camshaft,however and will leave some power on the table.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Toda B's DO make more, but they like high-dome pistons over 12.0:1. that's what they were designed for. Anything under that, its rather disappointing

Frankacura

Hi Chugger
The first time i did the set up i did use a DART
The bloc had spunge a crank bering so line bore have been done...
but from the 1 crank MAIN to the last that was 3 tow off
The 2nd block i hade a Girdle installed and the bastard machine Crank Cap No.5 at 1 and 1st at 5
when i got the block i saw the mistake and call the guy. he told me impossible, so i went back and you could saw the machining scratch was matching perfect when caps where at wrong place,
So he Sayd: lets just reverse them and your good....
He did switch them and mesure top and bottom of the hole but never mesured Left from bloc to right in cap...
Of course the cap is not perfect centred, but he his the machinist and told me... Frank we line hone all of them so they are all the same now.... Bastard I broke another crank...
In the Dart block i was using 151mm Rods

Frankacura

I will use 11.7:1CR (with B16a head) Pistons. ( But Im using GSR 10 tow shaved head)
ill say right there, GSR head raise by .3 and 10 tow shave also another .3 so here 12.3:1CR
And CR is less needed when you have velocity and good head flow...
Of course a cylinder filling at 70% using 12:1CR will make less compression that a simple 11:1CR but filling a 90% (More Air, More Power, )
Even David@Crower told me that 11:1CR was low to use the 404
But my NonVtec head flow 223CFM@.30 and 260CFM@.50 I made 212Whp and Ran 11.4@116 on less that 11:1CR, Im still running B20 stock pistons
Peak HP 7600rpm

So yess i will go over 12:1CR for the Toda and... have the great effect of velocity and head flow
crower 404 and Type R cams seam to be very similar in peak power
In my mind, Type R cams will make 10Whp over the 404's
based on a lill more tq at lill more peak rpm...
404 made 175 tq
Type R made 178 tq
I hope Toda B on a stroker is able of 10 more
Honda B vtec motors Use to make peak HP using 90% of peak torque,
(So 188fpt peak ) 90% of it let us 169tq to make the HP.. Now at which RPM will they peak ??? lol ...
Is my GSR ported IM will be able to keep some of that big TQ long enough to give a very nice WHP numbers or will it suffer and throw down that tq past 7000rpm and make the usual numbers that we usualy see... 240 - 250
My hope is to keep enough tq (165) at high rpm (8500), to make some good Whp numbers

Frankacura

So the new motor will be:
-Another refresh B20 motor
Bore at 84.5mm
- Wiseco 11.7:1CR pistons (on B16a Head) But im using GSR shaved head by 10 tow. so 12.3:1CR
New Eagle 95mm stroker standart weight crank
-ACL standart bering kit. (People that are saying, "they dont last" have probably themself use in the past a unbalanced motors, you can have the bering you want.. if it shake it will destroy soon,)
-Eagle LS rods
I will not install The Vtec oil cooler, as the NonVtec built, as this one is a dragster.
Shimed oil pump spring to raise it at 95psi ( To me the oil pressure law is 10 psi/1000rpm.)
-P72 oil pane
-GSR wather pump/T-belt from Honda
-I need a new good headers that wont hit the floor, when i run 7 psi in slick....
So i will be able to run 6 or even 5psi
-Should i keep my B18b flywheel that produce great inertia so i can launch at 6500rpm to make 1.4 of box or should i get the type R to be lighter at high rpm and make more hp but launch it higher at the track ??? I will also gain about 25TQ maybe won't need to launch higher, even if i am lighter ( Lot to think about)
- Head will be ported GSR i add 12CFM to it. shaved by 10 tow new valve job ( That reduce my flow from 6 CFM everywhere) Great Québec shops, So now flow as Stock LOLOL
- GSR ported intake 62mm JDM ITR Throttle body
-Clinick 650cc injectors and 52psi fuel pressure (there where they work, spray good)
- Toda B cams Dial In, AEM Cams gears
-Toda real springs tighter winding @ the bottom like OEM
-Ti-retainers and reworked rocker's in a way to reduce them weight on the nose.
-Stock GSR/B16a Valves
-GSR Dizi
-3 inches free streight exhaust line with one resonator. ( as it is now)
-P72 chipped ECU tuned on CROME by Us. Me and Sébastien David
- Built at the shop w..autolaminar. com (by me )
Thank You Rob thank you for giving me the opportunity

Frankacura

This is The Toda B cams


Inside my GSR IM

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y41...psmwwsii03.jpg

GSR head ports:


here is the pistons i will use
note how the non Vtec exhaust valve hit the wrong angles vtec pockets.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

I wish you luck. I am very happy with the torque band that the car gives with Toda Bs. I admit I didn't delve into the specific mathematics and probabilities that you did, nor did I have the intake system you've created there, but 240hp-250hp.. That's not going to happen. The Spec B is very similar to the behavior of a Pro1. Not a Pro2 where that's more likely to happen.

we're at 12.4:1CR on an LS crank/LS shotpeened rod with a 440cc injector at about 204whp. The purpose of the camshaft was never any quarter mile development.

But it is fun..

Frankacura

My LSVTEC 1.8L P30 pistons Type R cams made 203Whp
i ran it in my Integra street 2400 pounds with driver 13.0@105MPH
Ill be 2.13L this summer against 1.8 and my friend Toda will give me a hand.
prepare the party cuz i will make over 250Whp

Frankacura

LSVTEC R CAMS
Monchar.com : photo

blackeg

i had that same b16 piston type r cam lsvtec in my coupe last year. never dyno'd but it was impressive for what it was. i liked the midrange from 5500-7500 rpm on it.

looks from the graph that vtec could have come on earlier. what intake manifold and other supporting mods did it have.

Frankacura

I had tri-Y headers 3" exhaust
Type R IM 62mm throttle body
ported head Pr3 by me
No valve job juste valves Lap
The DOTED red dyno is 2 1/2 MIDAS exhaust vs 3" custom ( the only change i did)

Frankacura

HP formula is:
Your TQ @ a certain RPM always divided by 5252, so
If you Have 175tq at only 7500rpm this is already
175 X 7500 / 5252 = 249Whp@7500rpm
But 175 tq is low Tq numbers using Toda B cams, i already did that numbers on the smaller 404's
Toda Non Vtec lobe Peak tq around 5800rpm and Vtec lobe @ 7000rpm
If a make 180tq@7000rpm this is also 239Whp@7000rpm
My peak WHP should occur around 8200 - 8600rpm depending on how the setup is tuned... Intake effect, cams gears position, headers size etc.

Frankacura

95mm Crank is in:
http://vid2.photobucket.com/albums/y...ps2tkr941z.mp4

Frankacura

Frankacura

Frankacura

Rods/Pistons IN

Frankacura

Frankacura

Now i have to change my headers
I would like to keep the Big Tube Tri-Y but he is already flat at the bottom,
I got no ground clearance wit it so i wont repare it,
I just dont know if the PLM SP headers is 1 3/4 primary and staged as other that i saw,
Primaries = 43.3mm to 45.3mm to 48.8mm
4-2 collector = 48.8mm
2-1 collector = 51.8mm
Outlet = 65mm (2.5inch) ))
And Is PLM Toda Replica (TA) is the Big B18c one with about the same dimention ???
I dont need Midrange, I need All my Top end...
PLM SP or TA ???

Frankacura

$hawNPeeZyy

What about the Skunk2 Alpha V2?

jimmyjun0213

ditch the 62mm tb, get a 70mm or a 74mm and a better intake manifold like the skunk2 ultra or a edelbrock manifold. you should see some real gains there.

Frankacura

1st this built is gone.
it was 203Whp, and 70mm TB for 203Whp is wasting
I like to ear that. Do this and you gonna have more power
203Whp on a B18 is not easy to achieve, Lot of people run staged cams and dont even make it,
Wasting a 600$ on an Intake and another 500$ on King Kong TB is the reason why people never finish them set up, or end up at the scrap yard,
No More money to finish the project. will use a Napa Timing belt and get tune by Ebay chip LOL
Type R IM and stock JDM 62mm TB is Good up to 250Whp
Type R IM and stock 60mm TB is Good for 225Whp
So big thank you but i dont believe that LSVTEC R cams can make over 210Whp
But let me know your choice on the headers you like for 2.13L and 260Whp

Frankacura

Hi
Hummm i just dont know,
I guess my 1st point is cuz its S2
Then probably cuz of the price
and is it good fit on my Race EF B motor ??