nsxtasy

I'm about halfway through my second set of A032R track tires (205/50-15) on my ITR, which means it's time to start thinking of buying more tires. I'm looking for advice from those who have used the tires noted above, particularly the new A032R compounds and the new Michelin tire as well as the Toyo. (I've heard very good reports from non-ITR drivers about the stickiness and longevity of the Pilot Sport Cup, have yet to hear from someone using them on an ITR.)

Here is what Tire Rack shows for track tires in 205/50-15, excluding drag and autocross tires, with per-tire prices not including shaving ($15/tire) or heat cycling ($15/tire):

Hoosier R3S03 $173
Kumho VictoRacer V700 $115
Kumho Ecsta V700 $110
Michelin Pilot Sport Cup $194
Yokohama A032R H-Compound $149
Yokohama A032R S-Compound $168

I would also consider the Toyo RA-1, which Tire Rack doesn't carry.

About me: My usage is for HPDE events on road courses. I have a lot of track experience. I do not drive the tires between home and the track; however, I do leave them on and use them between the track and the hotel. I want the stickiness of an R compound tire, but since I'm not using them competitively, I care as much about tire longevity (and slight street use) as I do about getting that last hundredth of a second per lap (which is why I've been using the A032R rather than the Hoosier R3S03, for example).

I've been pretty happy with the A032R on my ITR. They stick well, and they've been lasting me roughly 1200 track miles (1700 total miles) per left side tire, and a few hundred more per right side tire, with rotating them front to back but not side to side. As a result, my inclination is to continue using the A032R, trying the S compound, which seems to be the version that is more intended for our cars (even though it's more expensive than the H compound). However, for experienced track junkies who have tried one of the other tires on the track, especially the Pilot Sport Cup or the RA-1 or the A032R-S, I would be very much interested in hearing whether you think they might have significant advantages over the tried-and-true A032R.

Dave-ROR

Well, I haven't used the new yokos or the michis.. but..

I really, really, really like the Toyo RA-1's. The Victoracers have more grip, but the Toyo's have more grip than the old/normal/whatever A032R's but still last a long time where as the kumho wear our quite a bit faster.. granted not hoosier fast.. but still.

Toyo's also give a bit more warning before they breakaway and are smoother when they do.. that's all related to the fact that they have less grip though.

nsxtasy

Good info - thanks.

Are there any good mail-order dealers for Toyo tires? I know they're not carried by Tire Rack or Discount Tire.

jg

I have a friend with the Michelins on a Viper. He said they're supposed to last, but at the sacrifice of grip(they're quite a bit harder than the Hoosier R3s03's). I have had the R3s03's on my hatch in the 205/50 -15 and now the 225/45-15, and it would be hard to switch to anything else. They STICK! That's all I have to say. Pricey, but much more fun.

Willard

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=498388

JeffS

There have been reports of a shortage of RA-1's in 205/50/15, though it sounds like that would be your best choice.

StageOne

I personally do not have any experience withthe Pilot Sports, but I talked with a guy that runs Grand Am (no not Colletti) and he really liked the tire saying it was like a Hoosier but with better wear characteristics.

nsxtasy

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by StageOne &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I talked with a guy that runs Grand Am (no not Colletti) and he really liked the tire saying it was like a Hoosier but with better wear characteristics.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Funny, I heard the exact same thing from a driver of an E36 M3 this past weekend at Elkhart Lake.

Dave-ROR

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nsxtasy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Good info - thanks.

Are there any good mail-order dealers for Toyo tires? I know they're not carried by Tire Rack or Discount Tire.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

we get ours from a couple of places that come to the races, order before hand and then drop off wheels and they mount/balance em at the track..

dimsum

I'm currently using Toyo RA-1 tires, and they've been working fine for me. They withstood the heat at Willow Springs during the summer time without melting too bad out on the track.

I don't remeber how many miles I have on the tires, though.

What's the difference between the A032R H & S tires?

Wai

- Hoosier R3S03 $173
Never tried it. Too expensive for me and from people who have used it, they don't last long, but have the best grip tho. So perfect for the road racers.

- Kumho VictoRacer V700 $115
Tried it last year. VERY affordable and very good grip. but the sidewall is soft so the hot temp needs to be in the neighborhood of 40+psi.... Compare to the A032R-H, tread life is short.

- Kumho Ecsta V700 $110
Dunno.... never tried it. But from the RR forum, these tires seem to have chunking problems?

- Michelin Pilot Sport Cup $194
Ouch....
I hear very very good comment from an E46 M3 driver. But he can afford a 40', 4 car (double deck) enclosed trailer so what's $194/tire for him?!

- Yokohama A032R H-Compound $149
I tried it a year before. Good tire that lasts a long time. But a couple things that I don't like them about.
Not as grippy as Kumho and RA1, which both of them are cheaper.
When they're almost down to the cord, they are VERY slippery.
Very sensitive to overinflation. I tried 38psi-40psi hot and the car was sliding everywhere.

- Yokohama A032R S-Compound $168
For just $5 difference, I would go for the Hoosier.

- Toyo RA-1
I used them during Expo and they were great. Very good tread life and have a lot of grip (but I have -3.5 degree camber too ). Reasonably priced. I think I would stick with them after this set is finished.

Big Phat R

I have a set of both A032Rs (H) and RA-1s on two sets of rims, both in 205/50-15 size. For the last year, I have been swapping them back and forth trying to note the subtle differences.

My subjective opinion is that the RA-1s have better overall grip and seem to get more and more grip the "balder" they become. They are much quieter than the Yokos but have a softer sidewall - so they don't feel quite the same as the Yokos in the corners.

The RA-1s don't really feel that good at all in the dry until you are half way though the full tread depth - before that they are greasy and squirmy. I think that Toyo suggests you shave them to 4/32nds for dry use. What I did was just drive the crap out of them and rotate them a lot - within a couple of days use - they were fine. I did a two day race school in Calgary last summer on them and was amazed at the grip I got out of them.

In the wet - the RA-1s excel. If you want an alternative track day "rain" tire - these are the ones to go with. Lots of fun, progressive breakaway. They don't make a ton of noise - so you have to listen carefully to make sure you're not overdoing things.

I'm just about done both sets. I think if I had my druthers - I would get another set of RA-1s. They are not hard to get in Vancouver (couple of days).

I would imagine the S compound A032R's are like the Ra-1 in terms of compound hardness. The H compound A032R is 80 treadwear - whereas the RA-1 is a 40.

My friend Robert who has a 2002 996 Twin turbo has been using the Michelin Pilots on his car since he got the car new. They take an amazing amount of abuse on a 3700 lb car given the high pressures he runs (48 hot!!). They tend to degrade after 5 heat cycles and they get really loose. I think R compoounds are much more resistant to heat cycling than "street" tires are....

my $0.02

Dave-ROR

Oh yeah, I guess I should point out that you need to shave the RA-1's which BPR pointed out, unless you areusing them for rain tires.

vtecvoodoo

I prefer RA-1`s.

nsxtasy

Wow, lots of folks using (and liking) the RA-1. Very interesting. Anyone have any idea how they are for longevity? Whether they might last as long as the A032R, or as short as the Hoosier R3S03?

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Big Phat R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I would imagine the S compound A032R's are like the Ra-1 in terms of compound hardness. The H compound A032R is 80 treadwear - whereas the RA-1 is a 40.</TD></TR></TABLE>

According to the Tire Rack website, the A032R is 60 for treadwear for both the S and H compounds. It's also 60 for both compounds according to the spec sheet on Yokohama's website.

Note - treadlife isn't necessarily comparable between different brands. So if the Yokohama A032R is rated for treadwear at 60, it will last half as long as, say, a Yokohama A022 tire that's rated at 120, but you can't necessarily conclude that it will last 50 percent longer than a Toyo tire that's rated at 40.

Anybody use up an RA-1 yet and have an idea how long it lasted?

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dimsum &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What's the difference between the A032R H & S tires?</TD></TR></TABLE>

As noted on the Tire Rack website: "Many sizes of the A032R are available with both S (soft) and H (hard) high-grip tread compounds. This is intended to allow the driver to match the tread compound's capabilities to the weight and horsepower of their vehicle, as well as to the track and weather conditions in which they will be running. Heavy vehicles, high horsepower, demanding tracks and warm ambient temperatures will probably require the use of H compound tires while light vehicles, low horsepower, less stressful tracks and cooler ambient temperatures may allow the use of the S compound tires.

The H compound tires are also well suited to drivers who want long-lasting tires to take them through multiple driving schools and/or lapping days. If in doubt, we recommend that the driver test the two compounds in order to identify which is best for their use."

I believe the one A032R version that has been available in the States until recently is the H version. Perhaps they brought in the S version because of folks like us, with lighter cars, who found that some other track tires are stickier?

Thanks for all the comments so far - please feel free to post additional ones.

Big Phat R

The RA-1s should last 5-7 HPDEs depending on how hard you drive/brake. I know you keep track of actual track mileage with yours.

Tires are a "wear item" - but also a safety item to me. Wear rates depend mostly on driving style, vehicle weight, ambient temps and track surface conditions.

Just try them yourself.

nsxtasy

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Big Phat R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Tires are a "wear item" - but also a safety item to me. Wear rates depend mostly on driving style, vehicle weight, ambient temps and track surface conditions.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yup - great comments.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Big Phat R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Just try them yourself.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I probably will, after hearing all the comments here. Then I'll be able to tell everyone how long they lasted me.



BTW, the RA-1 in 205/50-15 is $146 at 1010tires.com

Chris N

sackdz and effect both had RA-1's on their cars at gingerman on 4/19 if I remember correctly. Maybe they can add more thoughts on the RA-1's.

I don't know if you saw it or not nsxtasy, but in the RR/Autox forum someone posted a link to a site that sells both the A032R S and H, both for considerably cheaper than tirerack.

nsxtasy

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nsxtasy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">BTW, the RA-1 in 205/50-15 is $146 at 1010tires.com</TD></TR></TABLE>

I see that (a) 1010tires is a Canadian company (higher shipping costs to the States), and (b) wholesale tire pricing is available from sportscartire.com for members of the Honda-Acura Club...

nsxtasy

I'm sure shipping costs increase when you have to ship across the border to the States. I'm not sure by how much...?

I'll shop around, let everyone know what I find out.

Dave-ROR

Ken: http://www.racetire.com/ call them.

also, cjtire..

http://www.bseries.net/forum/v...1&sid=

Dirt

http://www.onlinetires.com is a Toyo dealer.

nsxtasy

Thanks for the suggestions. I'll try to keep track of all the prices I find out, and post them here.

jwjm

I take a look at Hankook Ventus' new race tire...Z211...their old race tires, z2000 was excellent...195/60/14 on my friend's civic that lasted 3 track seasons!

Dave-ROR

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jwjm &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I take a look at Hankook Ventus' new race tire...Z211...their old race tires, z2000 was excellent...195/60/14 on my friend's civic that lasted 3 track seasons!</TD></TR></TABLE>

more info would be good. lasting 3 track sessions and saying they are "excellent" doesn't actually provide any useful information.