need help reving to 11k
05-01-2009, 03:44 PM
#51
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Re: need help reving to 11k
Imagine them at 10k. They aren't exactly designed for that.
Buddy, the difference between your setup and a full-out racecar like Mr Palo's is basicly everything. Bigger turbo, sleeved block (probably o-ringed), probably a full girdle, very nice intake/exhaust manifolds, something a bit better than eagle rods, much larger piping (everywhere), much better fuel system, and probably a lot of time/money put into the headporting.
Below are several 800+ whp setups, WITH graphs. There is a big difference in parts between yours and theirs, and their motors make over 800whp w/o having to go past 10k. THIS is why people are shitting on your thread. You walk in like mr cool, give us a parts list common for 500whp/8000rpm setups, but still don't slap your graph up.
http://forums.evans-tuning.com/viewt...hp?f=38&t=5211
http://forums.evans-tuning.com/viewt...hp?f=38&t=5289
http://forums.evans-tuning.com/viewt...hp?f=38&t=5146
Until you post up a graph, the people here will treat you like any other "forum troll". Look the word up, then look at your thread, get the hint.
Buddy, the difference between your setup and a full-out racecar like Mr Palo's is basicly everything. Bigger turbo, sleeved block (probably o-ringed), probably a full girdle, very nice intake/exhaust manifolds, something a bit better than eagle rods, much larger piping (everywhere), much better fuel system, and probably a lot of time/money put into the headporting.
Below are several 800+ whp setups, WITH graphs. There is a big difference in parts between yours and theirs, and their motors make over 800whp w/o having to go past 10k. THIS is why people are shitting on your thread. You walk in like mr cool, give us a parts list common for 500whp/8000rpm setups, but still don't slap your graph up.
http://forums.evans-tuning.com/viewt...hp?f=38&t=5211
http://forums.evans-tuning.com/viewt...hp?f=38&t=5289
http://forums.evans-tuning.com/viewt...hp?f=38&t=5146
Until you post up a graph, the people here will treat you like any other "forum troll". Look the word up, then look at your thread, get the hint.
and now i already got the info i need no thanks to this site....i willl post more to let you guys know what happend
first stock sleeve 600hp motor...sold it run was done at 23psi q16
stock sleeves #2 run was done at 19 psi 110 oct
05-01-2009, 07:09 PM
#52
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Re: need help reving to 11k
The first thing that caught my attention was you asking to rev the motor to 11k with EAGLE RODS! You've got to be kidding. I dont feel safe running those rods past 8.5k and even at that i dont feel good about it. Manley rods FTW....you're also going to be roasting your bearings revving that high when its just not necessary. Most of the guys who are revving that high occasionally run forged aluminum rods, huge cams, huge turbos etc.....
05-01-2009, 09:58 PM
#53
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Re: need help reving to 11k
I think you have a good idea, but I would be scared to rev that high. I am using pauter rods in my LS and would not take it over 8k. I know there are plenty people making power to 11k, you just need to research and time.
05-02-2009, 05:02 AM
#54
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Re: need help reving to 11k
for what its worth. we do rev our race engines up to 11k on occasion. our list of "go fast" parts is a rather simple combination. these engines do hold power up to 11k and probably past that, but its stupid to go "indy" on these rod shooters
GE sleeved LS block
stock LS crank
stock gsr girdle
stock gsr main bolts
off the shelf JE pistons & crower rods from 2002(which have been through 4-5 rebuilds)
oem headgasket (over bored by GE)
race profile roller cams/valve train
sheetmetal intake mani/large throttle body
our own exhuast manifold
large charge piping
gt4202
GE sleeved LS block
stock LS crank
stock gsr girdle
stock gsr main bolts
off the shelf JE pistons & crower rods from 2002(which have been through 4-5 rebuilds)
oem headgasket (over bored by GE)
race profile roller cams/valve train
sheetmetal intake mani/large throttle body
our own exhuast manifold
large charge piping
gt4202
05-02-2009, 06:25 AM
#55
Re: need help reving to 11k
for what its worth. we do rev our race engines up to 11k on occasion. our list of "go fast" parts is a rather simple combination. these engines do hold power up to 11k and probably past that, but its stupid to go "indy" on these rod shooters
GE sleeved LS block
stock LS crank
stock gsr girdle
stock gsr main bolts
off the shelf JE pistons & crower rods from 2002(which have been through 4-5 rebuilds)
gt4202
GE sleeved LS block
stock LS crank
stock gsr girdle
stock gsr main bolts
off the shelf JE pistons & crower rods from 2002(which have been through 4-5 rebuilds)
gt4202
05-02-2009, 06:28 AM
#56
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Re: need help reving to 11k
Ok: 96 GSR-T, I have tried using a standard 5 main ls block in the past and shifting in the 11,000 range for a season. At the end of the season the 3 center mains werent in the best shape and from what I gathered it was due the mains "walking". Since then I have switched to a gsr block and have had no such issues. I also use 89mm cranks in my engines. I use factory main girdle, and main bolts. The main thing is oil pressure to making it live in the upper rpm range. I feel as though 10psi per 1k rev is a comfortable situation to be in.
Eagle rods, now lets just say I completely understand where people are coming from on the eagle rod thing but I have tuned a few that have made 800/850 and in the 10k range and I havent seen a "rod" failure yet. It might just be luck but hey who knows. I have also made that power a few times on supertech pistons but hey those shouldnt work according to h-t.
As far as making power up in the higher rpm range it is all about the cam/intake/head package. A good head is essential to the rpm/power range of an engine, thats all I can really say. Then having the correct valvetrain in the head, ferrea and supertech both have bad *** spring combos that work great. As far as cams go, if you are keeping the factory rocker setup I have a set that works great and no they are not junk2 cams. Intake manifold is a touchy area, the jg is stout, cant go wrong for the money but there are alot of others out there that are really nice, afi, hogans, full-race along with the new afi piece. I have one of the afi units here that I will be trying back to back with a jg here in the next week or so and we shall see.
In short, if you really want to make power to 11k it is 100% possible but If you dont have to then dont.
Eagle rods, now lets just say I completely understand where people are coming from on the eagle rod thing but I have tuned a few that have made 800/850 and in the 10k range and I havent seen a "rod" failure yet. It might just be luck but hey who knows. I have also made that power a few times on supertech pistons but hey those shouldnt work according to h-t.
As far as making power up in the higher rpm range it is all about the cam/intake/head package. A good head is essential to the rpm/power range of an engine, thats all I can really say. Then having the correct valvetrain in the head, ferrea and supertech both have bad *** spring combos that work great. As far as cams go, if you are keeping the factory rocker setup I have a set that works great and no they are not junk2 cams. Intake manifold is a touchy area, the jg is stout, cant go wrong for the money but there are alot of others out there that are really nice, afi, hogans, full-race along with the new afi piece. I have one of the afi units here that I will be trying back to back with a jg here in the next week or so and we shall see.
In short, if you really want to make power to 11k it is 100% possible but If you dont have to then dont.
05-02-2009, 07:40 AM
#57
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Re: need help reving to 11k
Ok: 96 GSR-T, I have tried using a standard 5 main ls block in the past and shifting in the 11,000 range for a season. At the end of the season the 3 center mains werent in the best shape and from what I gathered it was due the mains "walking". Since then I have switched to a gsr block and have had no such issues. I also use 89mm cranks in my engines. I use factory main girdle, and main bolts. The main thing is oil pressure to making it live in the upper rpm range. I feel as though 10psi per 1k rev is a comfortable situation to be in.
Eagle rods, now lets just say I completely understand where people are coming from on the eagle rod thing but I have tuned a few that have made 800/850 and in the 10k range and I havent seen a "rod" failure yet. It might just be luck but hey who knows. I have also made that power a few times on supertech pistons but hey those shouldnt work according to h-t.
As far as making power up in the higher rpm range it is all about the cam/intake/head package. A good head is essential to the rpm/power range of an engine, thats all I can really say. Then having the correct valvetrain in the head, ferrea and supertech both have bad *** spring combos that work great. As far as cams go, if you are keeping the factory rocker setup I have a set that works great and no they are not junk2 cams. Intake manifold is a touchy area, the jg is stout, cant go wrong for the money but there are alot of others out there that are really nice, afi, hogans, full-race along with the new afi piece. I have one of the afi units here that I will be trying back to back with a jg here in the next week or so and we shall see.
In short, if you really want to make power to 11k it is 100% possible but If you dont have to then dont.
Eagle rods, now lets just say I completely understand where people are coming from on the eagle rod thing but I have tuned a few that have made 800/850 and in the 10k range and I havent seen a "rod" failure yet. It might just be luck but hey who knows. I have also made that power a few times on supertech pistons but hey those shouldnt work according to h-t.
As far as making power up in the higher rpm range it is all about the cam/intake/head package. A good head is essential to the rpm/power range of an engine, thats all I can really say. Then having the correct valvetrain in the head, ferrea and supertech both have bad *** spring combos that work great. As far as cams go, if you are keeping the factory rocker setup I have a set that works great and no they are not junk2 cams. Intake manifold is a touchy area, the jg is stout, cant go wrong for the money but there are alot of others out there that are really nice, afi, hogans, full-race along with the new afi piece. I have one of the afi units here that I will be trying back to back with a jg here in the next week or so and we shall see.
In short, if you really want to make power to 11k it is 100% possible but If you dont have to then dont.
but new ones would not hurt....also is there anything worth doing to the ls block to take it that high?? i would love to see the cams you have and the price...mybe i could jump on a set
plz post when you do the afi and jg
05-02-2009, 08:20 AM
#59
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Re: need help reving to 11k
There's a few holes I see. First, those papers are dated 2006 & 2009. It was 2-3 years ago that the 560whp stock-BLOCK was shown on H-T (only change was turbo kit added), and other 600+ hp stock-sleeve engines were done years ago.
Next, an XSi trans can do 145 in 5th with stock-size tires (at 8100rpm), same w/a b16 using smaller tires. The links I posted make 600whp before 7500 - before they've fully spooled up. I'd really like to see the RPM graph, if you don't mind.
Its not that your ideas are crap, its just that they aren't done often because other's that HAVE tried it figured out its not hugely beneficial. You're free to do what you want, but that also gives us a license to criticise it.
Next, an XSi trans can do 145 in 5th with stock-size tires (at 8100rpm), same w/a b16 using smaller tires. The links I posted make 600whp before 7500 - before they've fully spooled up. I'd really like to see the RPM graph, if you don't mind.
Its not that your ideas are crap, its just that they aren't done often because other's that HAVE tried it figured out its not hugely beneficial. You're free to do what you want, but that also gives us a license to criticise it.
05-02-2009, 09:00 AM
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Re: need help reving to 11k
Wow; 11K is up there in RPM
. I had my setup hit 9800rpm before back in the day when I thought revving that high was serving a purpose on a small turbo. And when it hit 9800rpm I thought I was gonna take shrapnel. But; hey good luck with that.
http://www.inlinefour.com/todracvtecki.html I also remember reading a good while back that these are good to 11.5k. Downside is its a N/A cam.
. I had my setup hit 9800rpm before back in the day when I thought revving that high was serving a purpose on a small turbo. And when it hit 9800rpm I thought I was gonna take shrapnel. But; hey good luck with that.http://www.inlinefour.com/todracvtecki.html I also remember reading a good while back that these are good to 11.5k. Downside is its a N/A cam.
Last edited by rocket256; 05-02-2009 at 09:08 AM.
05-02-2009, 09:50 AM
#62
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Re: need help reving to 11k
I think it's pointless if it's not a race only car, seeing track for weekend events only & allowing the midweek for changing out bearings.
I spoke with Jeff Evans about his high revving drag car & he said he was sorry he didn't check bearings more often & this was a jim justice built bottom. Yes he did melt the bearings on a 5 main (twice).
Tony1 is constantly freshening up his motor & more so the trans. This is not for the light of heart!!! This leads to tons of time & money, not to mention all the patience!
I'm making 550 on pump with a stock sleeve build & revving to 9000 & feel this is more then enough. Hoping to take to the track & see if I can get her into the 10's, we'll see???
Be careful what you wish for!
good luck.
I spoke with Jeff Evans about his high revving drag car & he said he was sorry he didn't check bearings more often & this was a jim justice built bottom. Yes he did melt the bearings on a 5 main (twice).
Tony1 is constantly freshening up his motor & more so the trans. This is not for the light of heart!!! This leads to tons of time & money, not to mention all the patience!
I'm making 550 on pump with a stock sleeve build & revving to 9000 & feel this is more then enough. Hoping to take to the track & see if I can get her into the 10's, we'll see???
Be careful what you wish for!
good luck.
05-02-2009, 10:00 AM
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05-02-2009, 10:22 AM
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Re: need help reving to 11k
Thanks for the pertinent info Miller 
I think I need to do something with my oiling system, I just pulled my engine apart yesterday and I thought for the life of me I had the oil squirters plugged and they were still in there, I am no bearing expert but my rod bearings look rather "shiny" for my liking after 3000miles, and I think I was seeing a max of 80-85psi oil pressure but had the limiter set at 9500-9800. I have not checked out the mains yet but I assume they are similar.
I think I need to do something with my oiling system, I just pulled my engine apart yesterday and I thought for the life of me I had the oil squirters plugged and they were still in there, I am no bearing expert but my rod bearings look rather "shiny" for my liking after 3000miles, and I think I was seeing a max of 80-85psi oil pressure but had the limiter set at 9500-9800. I have not checked out the mains yet but I assume they are similar.
05-02-2009, 12:49 PM
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Re: need help reving to 11k
There's a few holes I see. First, those papers are dated 2006 & 2009. It was 2-3 years ago that the 560whp stock-BLOCK was shown on H-T (only change was turbo kit added), and other 600+ hp stock-sleeve engines were done years ago.
Next, an XSi trans can do 145 in 5th with stock-size tires (at 8100rpm), same w/a b16 using smaller tires. The links I posted make 600whp before 7500 - before they've fully spooled up. I'd really like to see the RPM graph, if you don't mind.
Its not that your ideas are crap, its just that they aren't done often because other's that HAVE tried it figured out its not hugely beneficial. You're free to do what you want, but that also gives us a license to criticise it.
Next, an XSi trans can do 145 in 5th with stock-size tires (at 8100rpm), same w/a b16 using smaller tires. The links I posted make 600whp before 7500 - before they've fully spooled up. I'd really like to see the RPM graph, if you don't mind.
Its not that your ideas are crap, its just that they aren't done often because other's that HAVE tried it figured out its not hugely beneficial. You're free to do what you want, but that also gives us a license to criticise it.
aand they are 4th gear's pull gsr tranny
05-02-2009, 01:12 PM
#66
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Re: need help reving to 11k
In regards to the eagle rod comment...I know for a fact there are plenty of cars making big power with them I simply dont trust them for the money. Manley has an economical rod out now that CRUSHES the eagles in quality for only $30 more. A lot of shops including Slowmotion in central ohio is switching their customers over to the Manleys.
05-02-2009, 02:40 PM
#67
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Re: need help reving to 11k
Ok: 96 GSR-T, I have tried using a standard 5 main ls block in the past and shifting in the 11,000 range for a season. At the end of the season the 3 center mains werent in the best shape and from what I gathered it was due the mains "walking". Since then I have switched to a gsr block and have had no such issues. I also use 89mm cranks in my engines. I use factory main girdle, and main bolts. The main thing is oil pressure to making it live in the upper rpm range. I feel as though 10psi per 1k rev is a comfortable situation to be in.
Eagle rods, now lets just say I completely understand where people are coming from on the eagle rod thing but I have tuned a few that have made 800/850 and in the 10k range and I havent seen a "rod" failure yet. It might just be luck but hey who knows. I have also made that power a few times on supertech pistons but hey those shouldnt work according to h-t.
thats a great post,thanks for sharing!!thats should answer ALL the op questions and let him make his decision.
As far as making power up in the higher rpm range it is all about the cam/intake/head package. A good head is essential to the rpm/power range of an engine, thats all I can really say. Then having the correct valvetrain in the head, ferrea and supertech both have bad *** spring combos that work great. As far as cams go, if you are keeping the factory rocker setup I have a set that works great and no they are not junk2 cams. Intake manifold is a touchy area, the jg is stout, cant go wrong for the money but there are alot of others out there that are really nice, afi, hogans, full-race along with the new afi piece. I have one of the afi units here that I will be trying back to back with a jg here in the next week or so and we shall see.
In short, if you really want to make power to 11k it is 100% possible but If you dont have to then dont.
Eagle rods, now lets just say I completely understand where people are coming from on the eagle rod thing but I have tuned a few that have made 800/850 and in the 10k range and I havent seen a "rod" failure yet. It might just be luck but hey who knows. I have also made that power a few times on supertech pistons but hey those shouldnt work according to h-t.
thats a great post,thanks for sharing!!thats should answer ALL the op questions and let him make his decision.
As far as making power up in the higher rpm range it is all about the cam/intake/head package. A good head is essential to the rpm/power range of an engine, thats all I can really say. Then having the correct valvetrain in the head, ferrea and supertech both have bad *** spring combos that work great. As far as cams go, if you are keeping the factory rocker setup I have a set that works great and no they are not junk2 cams. Intake manifold is a touchy area, the jg is stout, cant go wrong for the money but there are alot of others out there that are really nice, afi, hogans, full-race along with the new afi piece. I have one of the afi units here that I will be trying back to back with a jg here in the next week or so and we shall see.
In short, if you really want to make power to 11k it is 100% possible but If you dont have to then dont.
05-02-2009, 05:16 PM
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Re: need help reving to 11k
To rev 11K you should have to have a very good rod to stroke ratio. If you are going to use a b18 block you should use a shorter stroke crank so you can use a longer rod. The longer the rods the high you can rev the engine. The rod and pistons should be very light and a the head should be race ported head with oversize titanium valves and valve springs. A super big cam and a set of Individual TBs intake will aloso help. You will also need big injectors because at hi RPM the injectors have less time to supply the fuel.
05-04-2009, 12:26 AM
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Re: need help reving to 11k
For the OP, why not go B16? If revving turns you on, now your same head/cam/turbo combination will only become peakier with a B16. Now your Eagle rods may have a chance of surviving as well.
Trying to go for an LS stroke for better midrange gains, and then rev it way past and up to 11k makes no friggin sense. All the gains you get from the midrange is now neglected because you'll never even hit that part of the powerband anymore.
I do love high revving setups... I rev my GSR to 10k on mine, but I used to be 9.5k for the past 5 years and about 40000 miles on a street driven car. I am now revving to 10k since last year on Eagle rods with custom aged bolts. You better start off with a Dart block that comes with billet mains, or you'll be chewing through bearings like no tomorrow.
Trying to go for an LS stroke for better midrange gains, and then rev it way past and up to 11k makes no friggin sense. All the gains you get from the midrange is now neglected because you'll never even hit that part of the powerband anymore.
I do love high revving setups... I rev my GSR to 10k on mine, but I used to be 9.5k for the past 5 years and about 40000 miles on a street driven car. I am now revving to 10k since last year on Eagle rods with custom aged bolts. You better start off with a Dart block that comes with billet mains, or you'll be chewing through bearings like no tomorrow.
05-04-2009, 12:27 AM
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Re: need help reving to 11k
ITB's with big cams are the worse things you can do for a turbo car. Don't recommend something that you have no experience with
I like your username, because my name is Tony too and I have a turbo GSR. It is the only reason why you got a smiley face instead of ownage.
05-05-2009, 02:13 PM
#72
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Re: need help reving to 11k
ITB's with big cams are the worse things you can do for a turbo car. Don't recommend something that you have no experience with I like your username, because my name is Tony too and I have a turbo GSR. It is the only reason why you got a smiley face instead of ownage.
I like your username, because my name is Tony too and I have a turbo GSR. It is the only reason why you got a smiley face instead of ownage.Now that was f'n funny.
05-05-2009, 05:48 PM
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Re: need help reving to 11k
ITB's with big cams are the worse things you can do for a turbo car. Don't recommend something that you have no experience with I like your username, because my name is Tony too and I have a turbo GSR. It is the only reason why you got a smiley face instead of ownage.
I like your username, because my name is Tony too and I have a turbo GSR. It is the only reason why you got a smiley face instead of ownage.
05-06-2009, 07:23 AM
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Re: need help reving to 11k
Revs kill engines, it's that simple. You shouldn't ever want to rev the car way way up, for 3 really good reasons.
1) Most setups stop making power well before 11K. Hell, even before 10K.
2) It is hell on an engine, often for little to no benefit.
3) It's a good waste of money. One for spending it to make power all the way up there when it's perfectly plausable to have a 700whp 9500rpm car. And two for spending money fixing whatever you break by revving all the way up there consistently.