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re: Large Brian Crower cams with a log manifold. Is this a good idea?
Well thing is, we were actually having creeping issues and not quite a drop in boost pressure. The graphs didn’t show a psi drop, they stayed rather consistent. It was creeping, but it was consistently creeping. The bov is a greddy which I did tighten up a bit and I can’t find any boost leak. Like now when I drive it, it stays at 14-14.5 psi very consistently and holds it steady until redline. With vtec turned off of course.
re: Large Brian Crower cams with a log manifold. Is this a good idea?
Originally Posted by Nathan937
Well thing is, we were actually having creeping issues and not quite a drop in boost pressure. The graphs didn’t show a psi drop, they stayed rather consistent. It was creeping, but it was consistently creeping. The bov is a greddy which I did tighten up a bit and I can’t find any boost leak. Like now when I drive it, it stays at 14-14.5 psi very consistently and holds it steady until redline. With vtec turned off of course.
Wait, what?! Ok so.. Psi loss when VTEC engages and creep when VTEC disengaged?
re: Large Brian Crower cams with a log manifold. Is this a good idea?
Originally Posted by Txdragon
Wait, what?! Ok so.. Psi loss when VTEC engages and creep when VTEC disengaged?
i don’t have the graphs in front of me to verify, but if my memory serves me right, we were having creeping problems for a bit at the first part of the runs, I cannot say for certain that disabling vtec is exactly when it stopping creeping. But it did stop after it was disabled. But it did creep while in vtec too though.
re: Large Brian Crower cams with a log manifold. Is this a good idea?
Until I can verify exactly what this thing was doing as far as a psi loss/spike in vtec, I’m going to install the GSR cams and attempt to degree them in since my marks aren’t quite right anymore. Given my setup and power goals I know I wouldn’t really benefit from these crowers I have in here anyways due to the higher duration. They may not be the exact issue causing all this, but it is at least a problem that I need to get taken care of. Along with that I do plan on verifying all pins lock with air and I’ll test the vtec solenoid as well. I’ll definitely post my results and my progress. I appreciate all your guys help on this.
re: Large Brian Crower cams with a log manifold. Is this a good idea?
^^^ 2 things....
1. Is there a reason why you Tee'd off the vacuum line at the brake booster instead of using the capped-off nipple at the intake manifold??
2. Why not utilize the catch can by running into the valve cover (where the baby filter is at)??
re: Large Brian Crower cams with a log manifold. Is this a good idea?
Originally Posted by NVturbo
1. Is there a reason why you Tee'd off the vacuum line at the brake booster instead of using the capped-off nipple at the intake manifold??
^^ That for sure. Lol! I'd like to add this is a great looking engine bay. Looking as closely as I can at your log manifold, I'm gonna be honest and say it detracts from the otherwise secksiness of this setup. The welds look as if a pigeon had diarrhea all over everything and from a physics standpoint, doesn't appear that this design will flow with optimal results. Or even intended results. In fact, it looks like a high school shop project attempt by the class flunky.. I am JUST scratching the surface of fabrication and would be willing to bet I'd do a better job than pictured here... For the love of all things turbo; get a new manifold... Ok, rant over. Lol!
re: Large Brian Crower cams with a log manifold. Is this a good idea?
Originally Posted by NVturbo
^^^ 2 things....
1. Is there a reason why you Tee'd off the vacuum line at the brake booster instead of using the capped-off nipple at the intake manifold??
2. Why not utilize the catch can by running into the valve cover (where the baby filter is at)??
no real reason, when I set it all up a few months ago, I wasn’t 100% sure if I was able to use the old pcv port up top, so I just teed it into the booster hose.
and as far as the breather goes, the engine was already set up for a rear breather nipples in the back of the block. And I didn’t have and I could get ahold of any factory plugs. So I just switched it over to a 10an setup and went with that. I didn’t think just that small breather at the top of the valve cover would be sufficient if I capped off the block ports in the back
re: Large Brian Crower cams with a log manifold. Is this a good idea?
Originally Posted by Txdragon
^^ That for sure. Lol! I'd like to add this is a great looking engine bay. Looking as closely as I can at your log manifold, I'm gonna be honest and say it detracts from the otherwise secksiness of this setup. The welds look as if a pigeon had diarrhea all over everything and from a physics standpoint, doesn't appear that this design will flow with optimal results. Or even intended results. In fact, it looks like a high school shop project attempt by the class flunky.. I am JUST scratching the surface of fabrication and would be willing to bet I'd do a better job than pictured here... For the love of all things turbo; get a new manifold... Ok, rant over. Lol!
i was told when I purchased the car, that it was a straightline specialties manifold. I actually purchased the car off here a few months ago lol
re: Large Brian Crower cams with a log manifold. Is this a good idea?
Originally Posted by Nathan937
no real reason, when I set it all up a few months ago, I wasn’t 100% sure if I was able to use the old pcv port up top, so I just teed it into the booster hose.
and as far as the breather goes, the engine was already set up for a rear breather nipples in the back of the block. And I didn’t have and I could get ahold of any factory plugs. So I just switched it over to a 10an setup and went with that. I didn’t think just that small breather at the top of the valve cover would be sufficient if I capped off the block ports in the back
I would go with 2 lines at the valve cover along with the 2 you already have at the back of the black.
re: Large Brian Crower cams with a log manifold. Is this a good idea?
Originally Posted by Nathan937
Until I can verify exactly what this thing was doing as far as a psi loss/spike in vtec, I’m going to install the GSR cams and attempt to degree them in since my marks aren’t quite right anymore.
You may be using the term "degree in" incorrectly. I certainly hope you aren't going to spend the time to degree GSR camshafts that run at 0/0 from the factory in. Unless you have done of lot of milling and decking of the block/head you will do nothing but ruin a perfectly good day. Hopefully you mean, you are going to set the cam gears at 0/0 and install them onto the gsr cams like you would oem gears.
re: Large Brian Crower cams with a log manifold. Is this a good idea?
Originally Posted by AllMtrRex
You may be using the term "degree in" incorrectly. I certainly hope you aren't going to spend the time to degree GSR camshafts that run at 0/0 from the factory in. Unless you have done of lot of milling and decking of the block/head you will do nothing but ruin a perfectly good day. Hopefully you mean, you are going to set the cam gears at 0/0 and install them onto the gsr cams like you would oem gears.
well yes and no, if I set the cams at 0,0, and align the marks in the correct position my crank mark is about a 1/2 tooth off tdc mark. An unknown amount has been milled from the head. So I don’t know exactly how much to adjust the cam gears to compensate for that. Normally I seen guys will bump them up one mark for every .012 decked, but I have no idea the prior amount taken off.
re: Large Brian Crower cams with a log manifold. Is this a good idea?
You need to move that wastegate vacuum line to the intake manifold. Going to the turbo housing will cause issues, especially on higher boost applications
re: Large Brian Crower cams with a log manifold. Is this a good idea?
Originally Posted by turboLScrx
You need to move that wastegate vacuum line to the intake manifold. Going to the turbo housing will cause issues, especially on higher boost applications
Ive read that it stresses the diaphram in the WG to see vaccum. Is that not true?
re: Large Brian Crower cams with a log manifold. Is this a good idea?
Originally Posted by bigG
had the same issue on a gsr with edelbrock cams on a cast manifold. tuner said put back in gsr cams and problem was fixed.
that’s promising to hear. I’ll be getting these stock cams in and I’ll move my boost source to that open port in the IM and hopefully that will take care of the issues I’m having.
re: Large Brian Crower cams with a log manifold. Is this a good idea?
Originally Posted by Nathan937
Ive read that it stresses the diaphram in the WG to see vaccum. Is that not true?
‘I’ve never seen a issue going to the manifold, every tuner connects to the manifold. There will be positive pressure differential on the hot side of the intercooler which will result in the wastegate trying to open to early which makes everything start fluctuating
re: Large Brian Crower cams with a log manifold. Is this a good idea?
Originally Posted by turboLScrx
‘I’ve never seen a issue going to the manifold, every tuner connects to the manifold. There will be positive pressure differential on the hot side of the intercooler which will result in the wastegate trying to open to early which makes everything start fluctuating
good deal. Yeah since I have that dead port I’ll tie it in there. Thanks for the advice.
re: Large Brian Crower cams with a log manifold. Is this a good idea?
Hopefully I’m going to get the gsr cams installed this weekend and see if that will correct my issue. I still don’t have the graphs as it’s been a busy week, but I did find this I took when he tried to make a pull when vtec was enabled. Notice towards the end. Not sure if you pros can tell what’s going on, but chances are the cam timing is way off.
re: Large Brian Crower cams with a log manifold. Is this a good idea?
Doesn’t sound right at all.
just a few ideas I’ll throw out from crap I’ve experienced from cars over the years.
wideband not working properly, vtec cross over fueling way off.
damaged/ worn rockers for the vtak lobes
missing pins in rockers or stuck ones causing vtec to not fully engage
also on a side note, if its doing it at full throttle have him try doing a partial throttle boost pull say holding 2lbs to see if the problem persists.
i don’t think its the cams vs the turbo manifold. I’ve tuned cars with some pretty big boy cams with cast manifolds and they got down well. I have had widebands fail to where they would read rich when lean or vise versa, the majority of tuning I have done over the years has been street but you can feel when something is off and we would go back to my place and replace the o2 with a new Bosch sensor and boom there’s the problem, I can see what I’m doing now and make it run how it should.
re: Large Brian Crower cams with a log manifold. Is this a good idea?
you have to check BC products, they have been 5-6 degrees off before. Large cams and small turbo/log manifold will need a REALLY late vtec, if any at all.
Re: Large Brian Crower cams with a log manifold. Is this a good idea?
If its a manifold/cam combo it should go away if you retard the intake and advance the exhaust cam. You will loose power out of vtec of course but
if operation during vtec gets smoother thats its. CAUTION for valve to valve contact tho. A cheap wire cam could help to see if the valves are too close when you rotate the crank with a wrench.
Imo if thats a garrett copy or a garret t3 stg3 its a 55/65 turbine wheel and thats not small turbine wheel by all means i have a feeling its not cam / turbo /manifold combo related at least not 100%
Re: Large Brian Crower cams with a log manifold. Is this a good idea?
Originally Posted by K7-1Ktrevor
Doesn’t sound right at all.
just a few ideas I’ll throw out from crap I’ve experienced from cars over the years.
wideband not working properly, vtec cross over fueling way off.
damaged/ worn rockers for the vtak lobes
missing pins in rockers or stuck ones causing vtec to not fully engage
also on a side note, if its doing it at full throttle have him try doing a partial throttle boost pull say holding 2lbs to see if the problem persists.
i don’t think its the cams vs the turbo manifold. I’ve tuned cars with some pretty big boy cams with cast manifolds and they got down well. I have had widebands fail to where they would read rich when lean or vise versa, the majority of tuning I have done over the years has been street but you can feel when something is off and we would go back to my place and replace the o2 with a new Bosch sensor and boom there’s the problem, I can see what I’m doing now and make it run how it should.
Trevor, I plan in pressurizing vtec and making sure all the rockers lock as the should. We actually had two wide bands on the car. Mine (an older PLX) and his in the tailpipe. And they were reading pretty close to each other. Upon a visual inspection, the rockers appear to be in good shape. The engine was a lower miliage JDM swap and ran sk2tuner2 cams for roughly 2000 miles before it was parked.
Originally Posted by turbociv910
you have to check BC products, they have been 5-6 degrees off before. Large cams and small turbo/log manifold will need a REALLY late vtec, if any at all.
the latest he tried was 6500rpm, and it wasn’t much different from the 5000 point he tried. The car was just louder when it happened lol and since it kept happening I wasn’t sure and I was too afraid to start trying to advance cams we just kept it with vtec disabled.
Originally Posted by Balor_Gr
If its a manifold/cam combo it should go away if you retard the intake and advance the exhaust cam. You will loose power out of vtec of course but
if operation during vtec gets smoother thats its. CAUTION for valve to valve contact tho. A cheap wire cam could help to see if the valves are too close when you rotate the crank with a wrench.
Imo if thats a garrett copy or a garret t3 stg3 its a 55/65 turbine wheel and thats not small turbine wheel by all means i have a feeling its not cam / turbo /manifold combo related at least not 100%
Before you do anything try 7800 rpm vtec.
well, unfortunately I won’t be able to try that vtec point. It’s gonna run another couple Hundo to get back on the Dyno with it, and 7800 is my current redline lol I don’t have a demon or anything to actually go in myself and make changes. We are using his demon to tune then burning it to a chip. The turbo is a authentic Garrett. I ran the part number and seen one site it had a stage 3 wheel. But now I can’t find it. I think I’m gonna play it on the safe side and use the GSR cams. I’m worried about P2V contact since it’s a higher lift cam, and my timing marks and all that are already off, and I still haven’t got a degree wheel yet. I’ve always read that higher duration cams aren’t very good for a turbo application anyways. So we will see how it goes.
thanks all for the advice. It’s greatly appreciated.
Re: Large Brian Crower cams with a log manifold. Is this a good idea?
Swap in those gsr’s and report back. It very well could be over cammed. Sounds like you got your bases covered as far as checking down a list of possible things.
Re: Large Brian Crower cams with a log manifold. Is this a good idea?
Figured I’d post a update, pulled the crowers out, installed the GSR cams, set timing to how it was before (cams lined up, bottom 1/2 tooth off) and bumped each cam gear advanced 2 marks (4 degrees) to get them closer to that crank TDC, set timing to 16deg. Locked vtec with air and all rockers locked, adjusted up the valves and doubled checked operation of vtec solenoid. Everything checked out. Test drive and now there is a clean changeover and no power loss. With the timing changes it has messed with my idle quality and AFRs across the board. But it was at least able to verify everything is now working like it should. So now it’s just waiting until I get the chance to get it back on the dyno and see what kind of power I can get from it. If I can break into 350-360whp at 18psi or so I’ll be a happy camper.
on a entirely unrelated note, on a bottom mount turbo setup, what are you guys doing for your oil drains? I had some 10an nylon braided line that claimed to be oil safe. But it’s already soaking through (I got it for my breather tank in the first place) but it just seems a little tight to try to work the stainless line in that bend without it ovalling. Any suggestions? I hear the silicone stuff breaks down quick with the heat.
01-13-2020, 05:39 AM
re: Large Brian Crower cams with a log manifold. Is this a good idea?
