93supercoupe

Hey guys, whats up. Ive been helping a friend with his car. Its been having a break up in between shifts like crazy.

2.0l GSR
CP/crower billets
RLZ head
t3 6262
21psi = 560ish on 93oct.
93 EG hatch

Ever since the car was tuned in the begining of april, it would break up coming back from a shift. Its alot easier to describe while looking at a log but you would pull an entire gear, lift the throttle, shift, come back into the throttle and it would break up for a quick bit and clear up and go.

You can roll into any gear and pull the whole gear with out hiccup. Car runs amazing otherwise. It seems like a TIP in setting but no matter what we try, nothing makes a change to it.

So far we have tried
A different s300
dizzy
wires and plugs. cap and rotor
moving and adding good grounds
replaced the entire car wiring harness along with a virgin engine harness
and every setting we have tried in the tune has not made a difference.

It doesnt matter if its 10 psi or 20psi, same thing.

Its super easy to spot in the logs. These logs were taken on BRAND NEW pavement. Super smooth, no bumps, no tire spin. I say this because you will see the RPM gets a little crazy.

You will see it clearly at .0327s and again at .07s, but you can also see the whole RPM range, the graph is not smooth

I can see it goes pretty rich after the shift, possible issue? what should i be adjusting?

Any ideas, please fire away.

Let me know if you want me to email you the tune. Hondata doesnt host that file type

Muckman

iTrader: (2)

I think your presumption is correct about this being a tip in problem. As soon as you get back on the throttle (tip in) you can see the Ecu is clearly over fueling as well as a jump in timing. Go to Parameters / TPS and TPS Ign. Tip in Fuel Normal is what you want to reduce at the full operation ECT columns.

VegasInvasion

I'd agree with that, but what MAP sensor are you using? those readings don't look right.

93supercoupe

we are using a hondata 4bar. We tried 2 of them. This screen shot is from my home computer so the min and max's for fields are all stock. Which is why i think those map readings look weird.

So yesterday, we also noticed the incredibly rich spot after shift. No matter ho much fuel we took out of the TIP (factory number 256, we were down to 30) Made no difference.

I just assumed that the rich reading is the WB picking up unburnt fuel from the break up.

Should i be playing with TIP ign? any direction on which way to go there?

Ive got good logs on my other computer that ill post when i get back from the shop.

Anyone wanna take a look at the tune?

0mtber

iTrader: (2)

Randomly adjusting things & asking for advice on a forum isn't generally the best idea.
The data you provided isn't really enough to pin point the issue. (No calibration, no logs etc)

Contact the tuner who you ***paid*** to tune the vehicle & have them fix the issue.

If they are too busy to look at it in person, email them the logs & calibration and have them remotely fix the issue.

I don't understand why people try and fix things them selves when they paid for tuning.
There is something called customer service. All tuners should provide it.

93supercoupe

Thank you for the condescending and useless post. We are in contact with tuner. He has been very helpful and has sent a couple different calibrations with changes made and has not helped. So together, we are trying different things.

Like my first post says, honda-tech will not host the calibration and datalog type files, so if you would like me to email them, post your email address.

Further more, I don't see how reducing the throttle enrichment is an un guided guess when even the screen shot alone shows it incredibly rich after the shift.

If you need any more info to give some guidance, please just ask, and refrain from talking to me like a child

Muckman

iTrader: (2)

I noticed that too. The scalar is 0-100 but he didn't say how much boost was during that run. Might be nothing.

You can zip up the files (any files) and host the zip as an attachment.

93supercoupe

see if this works

Heres the latest calibration and datalog. This calibration has a reduced TIP in the associated ECT range

I can see in the log that it did help. Reducing the setting even further seemed to make it worse.

If you guys see anything out of line, or something to try, please fire away.

VegasInvasion

Don't know if you knew this, but MTber is kind of a big deal. If your tuner doesn't know how to fix his own work, he should be talking to us directly - it's going to take twice as long to fix the issue relaying information through a third party.
I do hope you guys are saving versions of this tune before and after making adjustments.

Anyway, I checked out your skl and datalog. If you installed FTS you could possibly eliminate this problem altogether, but I digress. It could be a few things:
1.) The interpolation between columns 10 and 11 is rather large, which could easily cause some confusion on how much fuel to deliver. You should record a more comprehensive log of the AFR data in partial throttle to make sure it wasn't just tuned too lean there.
2.) You may be getting a residual overrun cutoff, in which case you should raise the TPS threshold to 4-6% and shorten the delay to 100ms.
3.) you may need a heavier tip-in value, although that doesn't appear to be the issue, but lowering the tip-in ignition couldn't hurt.
4.) you might have a fuel pressure regulator issue. short of replacing it there's no other way to rule that out, but I'd check elsewhere for problems first.
5.) double check for vacuum leaks, just in case. it isn't uncommon to develop them after tuning a boosted Honda.

0mtber

iTrader: (2)

The post was to try to encourage you to make your tuner assist you with resolving the issue with HIS tune. That YOU paid for.

Is this a guess or did you actually dyno the vehicle?

Your fuel & timing tables need attention.
Your datalog shows 5.6-6 psi of boost tapering off to around 3 psi in 3rd gear...?

93supercoupe

The car made 558 on 20.9 lbs, dyno tuned, and I agree with you about being the tuners issue, but I'm trying to help out.

The same log on my computer shows an initial 16lbs tapering to 13.6 in 3rd

Any specific areas in the timing map that should have my attention?

93supercoupe

I am well aware of who mtber is, and I appreciate his time, but that's not an excuse.

There are no 3rd parties here. The suggestions from here go directly into effect. We have many different restore points to go back to, along with the orginal tune.

I see the gap in between 10-11. It looks pretty ugly. We are about to go get some more logs. The owner is reporting a significant improvement from reducing the TIP.

93supercoupe

Your right, a FTS would probably hide the issue altogether but we found that the problem is also there rolling into a gear

He found this out first hand Saturday night on a roll race VS a nitrous LS1 camaro. He still pulled him, but said it broke up when rolling in at 5kish

So, we took some logs of that. This log here is with the fuel TIP zereod out.I see it still goes incredibly rich when he hits it. Im just not understanding how its adding that much fuel when i have the entire TIP table all at 0. Even the "initial" table is at 0.

93supercoupe

I also decreased the overrun cut off to 100ms but did not touch the minimum TPS reading (forgot)

I also brought columns 10-11 closer and smoother.

Neither change helped. I'll try the min TPS setting tomorow

0mtber

iTrader: (2)

I don't think your issue is directly related to tip in.

93supercoupe

lol, please narrow my search!!!

Spunkster

Have you actually set the pressure vs. duty cycle table correctly?

93supercoupe

if im using "gear based duty cycle" then would there be any reason to set the pressure VS duty cycle table?

crucian

Yes. You have to set "pressure VS duty cycle" in order for boost by gear to adjust the boost solenoid accordingly. If you think you're getting too much fuel on "tip in," go to the "fuel trim" tab and adjust the overall "fuel tip in" into the negatives. In order for us to really help you, we would need your calibration file and datalogs.

g2turbo

OP, did you ever get this figured out?

I'm having the same issue, along with a friend of mine. Both 550 whp B series. Hondata and Neptune.

Curious to see what you found, if anything.

Thanks!