Stopsign32v

iTrader: (1)

Going to be tuning this thing and wondering what wide band AFR gauge you guys are using. I know reading AFR is pretty cut and dry but I didn't know if one stood out from the rest.

Txdragon

Innovate and AEM are 2 of the most common.

Autoworks

Innovate, AEM, PLX are going to be the top 3/most commonly used 3. All 3 use the same Bosch 4.9 sensor. It boils down to gauge preference,logging option, matching over anything for most.

wunfstgsr

The Innovate MTXL is way faster and clear to read than the AEM units! my brain hurts big time looking at a AEM AFR gauge! the Innovate is very accurate and fast! just my opinion

Chance EG

Glowshift also has wideband gauge kits that use the Bosch 4.9

D21X

Same experience here. Went from an AEM Uego to MTXL.

turboLScrx

I use Innovate with a 4.9

Txdragon

Same here.. Innovate LC-2.

turboLScrx

‘only thing about the 4.9 sensor is it’s very sensitive to moisture, make sure to mount the bung on the top side of the exhaust pipe. E85 is bad about spitting water on start up and will burn out these sensors

K7-1Ktrevor

I agree the older style sensors were allot more durable. Not a fan of the innovate widebands as I had issues with them throwing an e8 code even with new sensors. My aem has always done what I’ve needed it to do. I’ve been using one for the last ten years so that’s what I stick with.

NVturbo

I'm using the AEM, with delay turn on....to help minimize any damages from condensation to the Bosch sensor.

spAdam

iTrader: (1)

PLX all day. 7 years old, over 100k miles, zero issues. Should probably get a new sensor just on principle.

Relic1

same here but several more years of operation (damn I'm getting old) zero issues with gauge, controller or sensor.

same here too....

Nathan937

how do you have the delay turn on set up?

spAdam

iTrader: (1)

I went with the PLX back when I got it because I was looking for an option that didn't require me to use a gauge. I just wanted to run it to the ecu for logging/tuning/closed loop control. Since then I've learned that their boxes are pretty good, they have low latency (important!) and are pretty reliable despite being bilt with fairly consumer-grade parts. They also don't have any reverse voltage protection, so if you accidentally hook one up backwards you will fry the box.

Other things I've picked up from too much reading:
- Innovate are hard on sensors. It seems like maybe their sensor heating strategy is not great.
- AEM makes a nice unit, but it is slow.
- Tech Edge are slow.
- 14Point7 makes a decent, simple, reliable product. Not aware of the tech specs though.
- NTK are really good controllers but use a non-Bosch sensor which is actually a great sensor but is more expensive and harder to source when you need a replacement. (Are the NTK boxes even still available?)

Interesting. Is this an option in the AEM software? We use 4.9s at work on all kinds of fuel, including E85R, and have never killed one that I know of, aside from melting the headers off an engine on the dyno or crash damage. They seem to be pretty indestructible. On car they mileage out, but on dyno they run for what seems like forever. To be fair, these are engines that don't get fired until they are warmed up with external heaters and ecus with way better control.

This is something that really sets the OEM and higher end ecus apart from the tuner grade stuff. An ecu with on-board lambda control is most likely not going to run the sensor until the engine is running, or is going to apply the heater in a more gentle closed-loop manner than an external controller can.

I have been thinking about delaying power on though, just to be nicer to the sensor. One option that came to mind would be using a relay on one of the programmable outputs on the ground wire of the controller. In S300/NepTune you could set the output to 'always on' and set it up so that the controller is powered on with the engine running (say, above 600rpm or so) and maybe above a certain engine temp if you want to warm up/dry out the exhaust before powering on. It would be a quick reprogram to have the sensor always on for things like tuning cold starts.

Old but good thread with a ton of research: DIYEFI.org Forum - View topic - Widebands That You Would or Wouldn't Buy

motoxxxman

pro tuner here. I can say from a few decades of tuning experience, PLX is the only wideband that reads accurately consistently. They also seem to last the longest. I have never seen a PLX wideband that was more than 0.15afr different than the motec dyno wideband. But 90%+ of all other widebands tend to read anywhere from 0.2-1.0afr different than the dyno wideband.
If accuracy is what you want, PLX is the only way to go.
Aem seems to last the longest per sensor, slightly longer than PLX, but they are horribly inaccurate.
Innovate is hit or miss, and changes every time you replace the sensor. They do tend to burn up sensors faster than most other brands though.

Stopsign32v

iTrader: (1)

So is this particular PLX the route you guys would suggest? https://www.plxdevices.com/Wideband-...7346002719.htm

spAdam

iTrader: (1)

Yeah, that’s the only one they sell. What ecu are you planning to use?

Stopsign32v

iTrader: (1)

Not 100% sure. I got it from Phearable.net and the receipt says "Hondata S300 package Pre-installed into Obd1 Vtec ECU. But I will not be going Vtec for a while if at all.

spAdam

iTrader: (1)

S300 was the answer. If you plan on running closed loop with a lambda sensor, you’ll need to wire it in to one of the spare ecu inputs... not to the direct analogs on the s300 board. I prefer EGRL since I’ll never use EGR, ELD is useful for watching your system amp draw.