to o-ring or not to o-ring that is the question?
06-25-2008, 05:26 AM
#26
Honda-Tech Member
Re: (wHOAlly)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by wHOAlly »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the AEM ProRWD car ran only O-rings 
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Haha
GE sleeves and copper o rings on my motors.
</TD></TR></TABLE>Haha
GE sleeves and copper o rings on my motors.
06-25-2008, 02:10 PM
#28
Re: to o-ring or not to o-ring that is the question? (jdm inc)
oem Honda overboard to match your bore size is always the best they tend to hold the most hp with no problems
06-25-2008, 04:40 PM
#29
Honda-Tech Member
Re: to o-ring or not to o-ring that is the question? (Golden Eagle)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Golden Eagle »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">oem Honda overboard to match your bore size is always the best they tend to hold the most hp with no problems </TD></TR></TABLE>
GE sleeves and o-rings for the new engine.
GE sleeves and o-rings for the new engine.
06-25-2008, 04:52 PM
#30
Honda-Tech Member
Re: to o-ring or not to o-ring that is the question? (1992Si)
i run the copper o-rings. I hate replacing them when i have removed the head for something but i've never blown a head gasket using my step decked o-ringed block.
06-25-2008, 05:00 PM
#31
Re: to o-ring or not to o-ring that is the question? (Golden Eagle)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Golden Eagle »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">oem Honda overboard to match your bore size is always the best they tend to hold the most hp with no problems </TD></TR></TABLE>
awesome so no special gasket thanks alot.
awesome so no special gasket thanks alot.
06-25-2008, 05:03 PM
#32
Honda-Tech Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: PBIR once called MOROSO
Posts: 2,337
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Re: to o-ring or not to o-ring that is the question? (jdm inc)
well ive done some research & it seems simple enough 2 do. so my question is cant u make like 2 sets of o-rings so if u do pull the head u already have a set on standby just in case?
06-25-2008, 10:47 PM
#34
Honda-Tech Member
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Anaheim, CA, USA
Posts: 6,093
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: (ALL IMPORT)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ALL IMPORT »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">well ive already experienced an issue with a stock deck & a cometic head gasket.
must of went in the beginning of the run then up top this happens.
this was only running 30 psi also car ran for over a year not 1 problem then things went wrong. now im going for 40+psi so i dont need theese issues.
notice everything else looks good, lol
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Why would a o ring help this problem? That was above the o ring and head gasket.
must of went in the beginning of the run then up top this happens.
this was only running 30 psi also car ran for over a year not 1 problem then things went wrong. now im going for 40+psi so i dont need theese issues.
notice everything else looks good, lol
</TD></TR></TABLE>Why would a o ring help this problem? That was above the o ring and head gasket.
06-26-2008, 04:13 AM
#36
Honda-Tech Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: PBIR once called MOROSO
Posts: 2,337
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Re: (ninesecrx)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ninesecrx »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Why would a o ring help this problem? That was above the o ring and head gasket. </TD></TR></TABLE>
because it started with just the gasket blown then the exhaust started escaping & burnt the the hole in the head my darton sleeves were barely even effected thuse being hard as hell & the head soft. so the o-ring in my opinion would of backed the h-gasket up & would of held. any opinions?
2 darton
ill post a pic of the sleeve when i get home.
Why would a o ring help this problem? That was above the o ring and head gasket. </TD></TR></TABLE>
because it started with just the gasket blown then the exhaust started escaping & burnt the the hole in the head my darton sleeves were barely even effected thuse being hard as hell & the head soft. so the o-ring in my opinion would of backed the h-gasket up & would of held. any opinions?
2 dartonill post a pic of the sleeve when i get home.
06-26-2008, 06:04 AM
#40
Re: (tony1)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tony1 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">That was caused by a blown headgasket...</TD></TR></TABLE>
Blown headgasket caused by:
a= inadequate clamp load from block to head through the gasket
b= being too aggressive with the timing ( a headgaskets WORST enemy )
c= a lean condition causing pre-ignition and a hotspot on the gasket / head
d= surface irregularities or voids that allow gas to accumulate and burn ( another form of pre-ignition )
There are so many factors to think about. What do you guys see from the picture? Any clues?
Blown headgasket caused by:
a= inadequate clamp load from block to head through the gasket
b= being too aggressive with the timing ( a headgaskets WORST enemy )
c= a lean condition causing pre-ignition and a hotspot on the gasket / head
d= surface irregularities or voids that allow gas to accumulate and burn ( another form of pre-ignition )
There are so many factors to think about. What do you guys see from the picture? Any clues?
06-26-2008, 04:44 PM
#42
Honda-Tech Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: PBIR once called MOROSO
Posts: 2,337
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Re: (SpeedDreamz.com)
i thought i said it was the head gasket that went, THEN by running down the track all the blow-bye took a tool on the head. the sleeve didnt get that hurt cause it was steel.
as u all know when hot stuff escapes it burns
so now
a- would the o ring of helped back up the head gasket?
b- put more clamping load on the gasket causing the blow bye 2 not occure?
c- car was deff conservative with timing afr was like 11.7 
oh aslo head was torqued at 90ftlbs. what do u guys norm do?
aslo the car was running for a year at 650whp on & off the track got about 4000miles out of it including 750 break in miles. no issues. so maybe i needed to re torque the head ? guess i was lazy
heres a pic of the sleeve. & the head gasket just for study. opinions welcome would oring's of hepled.
as u all know when hot stuff escapes it burns
so now
a- would the o ring of helped back up the head gasket?
b- put more clamping load on the gasket causing the blow bye 2 not occure?
c- car was deff conservative with timing afr was like 11.7
oh aslo head was torqued at 90ftlbs. what do u guys norm do?
aslo the car was running for a year at 650whp on & off the track got about 4000miles out of it including 750 break in miles. no issues. so maybe i needed to re torque the head ? guess i was lazy
heres a pic of the sleeve. & the head gasket just for study. opinions welcome would oring's of hepled.
06-26-2008, 06:20 PM
#43
Honda-Tech Member
Re: (ALL IMPORT)
i had my block done with orings but never used the oring and never had a problem with a oem headgasket.cometics dont like boost seem to never work on high boost apps.
GOLDEN EAGLE for me()doing the same on the new rebuild but using the orings this time)
GOLDEN EAGLE for me()doing the same on the new rebuild but using the orings this time)
06-26-2008, 11:32 PM
#44
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: LA, CA, USA
Posts: 74
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: (swapit)
I would think if the car ran fine for a year and then all of a sudden had this issue, something changed? Maybe you have a ign. problem? Have you looked into a dropped sleeve? That is something that also could change and create a problem this this real quick.
If a copper o-ring helps seal the bore, why not just use copper spray on the entire head gasket before use? I could see using a steel o-ring with a copper head gasket making a difference, but not a soft wire. Steel on steel obviously seals very well by itself, why cut a groove into the deck and add something that is not steel? Also when you cut a groove into the deck, would that not limit the bore size one can go with the block?
If a copper o-ring helps seal the bore, why not just use copper spray on the entire head gasket before use? I could see using a steel o-ring with a copper head gasket making a difference, but not a soft wire. Steel on steel obviously seals very well by itself, why cut a groove into the deck and add something that is not steel? Also when you cut a groove into the deck, would that not limit the bore size one can go with the block?
06-27-2008, 07:29 AM
#47
Honda-Tech Member
Re: (Golden Eagle)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Golden Eagle »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">yes the oring sits on the top of the sleeve </TD></TR></TABLE>
In a grove machined for it.
In a grove machined for it.
06-27-2008, 07:35 AM
#48
Re: (pro-motion)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by pro-motion »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I would think if the car ran fine for a year and then all of a sudden had this issue, something changed? Maybe you have a ign. problem? Have you looked into a dropped sleeve? That is something that also could change and create a problem this this real quick.
If a copper o-ring helps seal the bore, why not just use copper spray on the entire head gasket before use? I could see using a steel o-ring with a copper head gasket making a difference, but not a soft wire. Steel on steel obviously seals very well by itself, why cut a groove into the deck and add something that is not steel? Also when you cut a groove into the deck, would that not limit the bore size one can go with the block?</TD></TR></TABLE>with the copper oring when you bolt the head down it smashes and gives more sealing power it is a method proven to work by the many racers that have run them over the years.
we can do a max of 85mm bore with a oring and that is max turbo bore so for a boosted app this limits you in no way.
copper spray can help but no ware near as much as a oring they are 2 different things should not even be compared to each other.
If a copper o-ring helps seal the bore, why not just use copper spray on the entire head gasket before use? I could see using a steel o-ring with a copper head gasket making a difference, but not a soft wire. Steel on steel obviously seals very well by itself, why cut a groove into the deck and add something that is not steel? Also when you cut a groove into the deck, would that not limit the bore size one can go with the block?</TD></TR></TABLE>with the copper oring when you bolt the head down it smashes and gives more sealing power it is a method proven to work by the many racers that have run them over the years.
we can do a max of 85mm bore with a oring and that is max turbo bore so for a boosted app this limits you in no way.
copper spray can help but no ware near as much as a oring they are 2 different things should not even be compared to each other.
06-27-2008, 09:34 AM
#49
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: LA, CA, USA
Posts: 74
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: (Golden Eagle)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Golden Eagle »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">with the copper oring when you bolt the head down it smashes and gives more sealing power it is a method proven to work by the many racers that have run them over the years.
we can do a max of 85mm bore with a oring and that is max turbo bore so for a boosted app this limits you in no way.
copper spray can help but no ware near as much as a oring they are 2 different things should not even be compared to each other.</TD></TR></TABLE>
So the copper seals better to the steel gasket? Why not just have the entire top of a sleeve be copper then? Why limit your self to just a tiny wire? Does this soft copper wire the smashes flat do anything for sealing above the head gasket between the head and gasket?
we can do a max of 85mm bore with a oring and that is max turbo bore so for a boosted app this limits you in no way.
copper spray can help but no ware near as much as a oring they are 2 different things should not even be compared to each other.</TD></TR></TABLE>
So the copper seals better to the steel gasket? Why not just have the entire top of a sleeve be copper then? Why limit your self to just a tiny wire? Does this soft copper wire the smashes flat do anything for sealing above the head gasket between the head and gasket?