ID2000 idle quality video
08-18-2009, 06:50 PM
#1
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
ID2000 idle quality video
As you can probably imagine, the first question out of everybody's mouth about the ID2000's is "how do they idle?".
I did a back to back test today on a bone stock Integra LS motor that isn't in the best condition by any means. I ran the car with the stock 240cc injectors and Hondata's 'stock LS' calibration. I then changed to the ID2000's (2200cc/min at 43.5psi fuel pressure) and did the same. Ignition timing was untouched between the two runs, nor was it adjusted any from the base Hondata calibration.
I think it's pretty amusing the the max pulsewidth was 2.1msec and max duty cycle was 12%. haha
The ID2000's showed slightly more power, but was also run a little leaner. The stock Hondata cal was fairly rich up top but this test wasn't about making more power so I didn't bother much with tuning either injector under power. That being said, the power was within a couple percent either way. For a 2200cc injector to make the same power as a 240cc injector, at 120whp, that's pretty impressive. Try doing a back to back with Bosch 1600's and see how much power you lose.
Anyways, thought this video was fitting here since most of the questions are coming from the guys in this forum.
Also, this graph really helps make sense of why they work so much better than the 1600's. It's really as simple as 30 years of technology difference between the two. It's things like this that allow us to continue to push the envelope and keep things progressing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RX1xIvOWcNk
I did a back to back test today on a bone stock Integra LS motor that isn't in the best condition by any means. I ran the car with the stock 240cc injectors and Hondata's 'stock LS' calibration. I then changed to the ID2000's (2200cc/min at 43.5psi fuel pressure) and did the same. Ignition timing was untouched between the two runs, nor was it adjusted any from the base Hondata calibration.
I think it's pretty amusing the the max pulsewidth was 2.1msec and max duty cycle was 12%. haha
The ID2000's showed slightly more power, but was also run a little leaner. The stock Hondata cal was fairly rich up top but this test wasn't about making more power so I didn't bother much with tuning either injector under power. That being said, the power was within a couple percent either way. For a 2200cc injector to make the same power as a 240cc injector, at 120whp, that's pretty impressive. Try doing a back to back with Bosch 1600's and see how much power you lose.
Anyways, thought this video was fitting here since most of the questions are coming from the guys in this forum.
Also, this graph really helps make sense of why they work so much better than the 1600's. It's really as simple as 30 years of technology difference between the two. It's things like this that allow us to continue to push the envelope and keep things progressing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RX1xIvOWcNk
08-18-2009, 07:10 PM
#6
Re: ID2000 idle quality video
Nice demonstration and test.
Tony at some point I would greatly appreciate if you could tune for power using some stock 240s and the ID 2000s. I've seen some dyno runs on the ID 1000s versus the 440s on a built engine. The IDs make more power everywhere but that data was not something that person wanted out in the public.
Tony at some point I would greatly appreciate if you could tune for power using some stock 240s and the ID 2000s. I've seen some dyno runs on the ID 1000s versus the 440s on a built engine. The IDs make more power everywhere but that data was not something that person wanted out in the public.
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08-18-2009, 07:18 PM
#9
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
Re: ID2000 idle quality video
Many of the n/a racers have switched to ID725's and ID1000's and gained power. There's no question that good fuel atomization makes power.
Unfortunately, I stay pretty busy and I really don't see any point in doing a power comparison between stock injectors and 2200cc injectors. These runs were close enough to show the results. The ID2000's were mid 13's a/f ratio and the stock injectors were from high 12's to high 11's up top. The ID2000's made more power. Would the stock injectors match that power if leaned out? Probably, but in the end we're talking about being within 1-2% on the power comparison. What more info do you want?
The sole purpose of this test was to show the idle quality and power production compared to stock injectors. Nobody will ever run ID2000's on a stock Honda motor, that would just be dumb. lol
This post is not about selling these, please keep that to PMs.
Unfortunately, I stay pretty busy and I really don't see any point in doing a power comparison between stock injectors and 2200cc injectors. These runs were close enough to show the results. The ID2000's were mid 13's a/f ratio and the stock injectors were from high 12's to high 11's up top. The ID2000's made more power. Would the stock injectors match that power if leaned out? Probably, but in the end we're talking about being within 1-2% on the power comparison. What more info do you want?
The sole purpose of this test was to show the idle quality and power production compared to stock injectors. Nobody will ever run ID2000's on a stock Honda motor, that would just be dumb. lol
This post is not about selling these, please keep that to PMs.
08-18-2009, 07:34 PM
#11
Honda-Tech Member
Re: ID2000 idle quality video
Whats going on past 9ms? Does it just flatline all the way down?
I know Im running well over that 9-10 ms with the 1600cc.
I know Im running well over that 9-10 ms with the 1600cc.
08-18-2009, 07:38 PM
#12
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
Re: ID2000 idle quality video
There's more info here about what's going on with the 1600's up top. http://www.injectordynamics.com/ID2000.html
08-18-2009, 07:45 PM
#16
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
Re: ID2000 idle quality video
Yes, the recovery time is so great that the transition from actually working to going static is a huge change in fuel flow. The bigger problem is that it happens at a pretty low duty cycle since the recovery time is so long. What you end up with is that above 85% duty cycle, the flow is very non linear, so the 4% that your computer may be trying to add, may actually be more like 15%, if you're lucky. If you're not lucky, the 3% that your computer is trying to take away may turn into taking away 15% instead, which is bad news at 90% duty cycle power level on 1600's.
In a nutshell, if you're over 80% duty cycle on 1600's then you're nearing a bad place.
In a nutshell, if you're over 80% duty cycle on 1600's then you're nearing a bad place.
08-18-2009, 07:46 PM
#17
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Thread Starter
Re: ID2000 idle quality video
No pics yet because the correct adaptors are not finished. I made due with the ID1000 adaptors, but these actually have their own adaptors to make the length correct.
08-18-2009, 07:47 PM
#18
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08-18-2009, 08:09 PM
#21
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Re: ID2000 idle quality video
Tony do you think 800whp is possible on a single walbro and inline bosch 044 with your install kit and these injectors? You said before 750whp would be possible with that setup and the 1000's and I was hoping since you could run these at a lower fuel pressure that would let the pumps flow enough for 800whp?
https://honda-tech.com/forums/forced-induction-16/borg-warner-s366-fuel-set-up-2629783/
https://honda-tech.com/forums/forced-induction-16/borg-warner-s366-fuel-set-up-2629783/
08-18-2009, 08:11 PM
#22
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Thread Starter
Re: ID2000 idle quality video
I can't say for sure, but I think it'll do it. I'm sure you're going to be pushing the system as far as the pumps go, but I think you can do it.
