an2ny888

which is the more accurate wideband? i currently have a plx and it works alright. then i looked at the innovate forum and saw that the innovate wideband can be recalibrated, while the plx doesn't have this feature. what do you guys think

nah22accord

I would also look into the ngk wideband. But if I am not mistaken all of the widebands are rated to 0.1 AFR accuracy.

98vtec

zeitonix

0Bisimoto

The innovate units are superior: they allow recalibration for aging sensors. It has helped my program and those of many prostock teams as well. Call or write to me via my site: I can get you excellent prices.

WAFFLES

i noticed my innovate wb to be off from the dyno i had it on by about a full point. I guess i need to get it recalibrated.

pomansouth01

you are supposed to recalibrate it everytime you install it...its just a free air calibration...

ITRnorway

can the innovative be usead as wide and narrow band sensor at the same time? like the PLX

WAFFLES

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by pomansouth01 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you are supposed to recalibrate it everytime you install it...its just a free air calibration...</TD></TR></TABLE>

I am aware of this. It gets recalibrated every time. I guess I was thinking there would be another way of calibrating it.

noboostedEGo

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CRXnorway &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">can the innovative be usead as wide and narrow band sensor at the same time? like the PLX</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes the INNOVATE has both outputs.

david@didrace.com

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by WAFFLES &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I am aware of this. It gets recalibrated every time. I guess I was thinking there would be another way of calibrating it.</TD></TR></TABLE>

How do you know if it's off by a full point? If you're comparing it to the dyno's O2 sensor, how do you know it's accurate?

If you do a free air calibration on an Innovate and it shows 20.9 then it's peachy.

O2 sensors, as dumb as it sounds, are sensitive to high temperatures. If you have it getting too hot during a WOT run it'll show a huge lean spike. There are ways of preventing that, mainly having it further back in the exhaust or having copper heatsinks to dissipate heat away from the sensor.

disamis

try aem...

BERT-O

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by disamis &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">try aem...
</TD></TR></TABLE>

&lt;scratchin head&gt;

WAFFLES

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by backpurge &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

How do you know if it's off by a full point? If you're comparing it to the dyno's O2 sensor, how do you know it's accurate?

If you do a free air calibration on an Innovate and it shows 20.9 then it's peachy.

O2 sensors, as dumb as it sounds, are sensitive to high temperatures. If you have it getting too hot during a WOT run it'll show a huge lean spike. There are ways of preventing that, mainly having it further back in the exhaust or having copper heatsinks to dissipate heat away from the sensor.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Understood. However the car was street tuned to a 13:1 a/f, and read a 14:1 on the dyno. THe difference stayed that way the entire time. Though I agree it's entirely possible for the dynos wb to be off.

2k.civic.si

i use and trust nothing but innovate wideband products
patented technology and free air cal make it #1

ITRnorway

could the innovative be used with the s300. hondata recomends the plx

2k.civic.si

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CRXnorway &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">could the innovative be used with the s300. hondata recomends the plx</TD></TR></TABLE>

yes...it has 2 programable analog outputs that can be used with hondata

2point2

"free air cal" is a disadvantage according to PLXDevices..

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Manual free air sensor calibration is often required in other wideband products primarily to account for reference voltage deviations in its internal electronics. As mentioned earlier, the wideband sensor is extremely sensitive to reference voltages as little as 50 mV and Ip current as little as 1 mA can influence the measurement accuracy significantly. In order to save on manufacturing and quality control costs, these other wideband controllers pass the burdon of fine tuning their electronics to the end user. All PLX wideband products go through an extensive quality control procedure before they are shipped. Electrical tolerances and internal reference voltages are kept extremely tight to ensure excellent performance and accuracy. Products which do not pass quality control are sent back to manufacturing for engineering analysis and the procedure is repeated.


In addition, some wideband controllers which require calibration to free air may introduce unwanted errors. A calibration procedure requires a known oxygen concentration to reference the wideband controller. “Ideal free air” is an oxygen concentration at sea level (0 elevation), and 25 Deg C. If a wideband controller is calibrated to free air outside of “ideal free air” conditions, the controller will improperly reference the oxygen concentration. The oxygen concentration of air at high elevation is less than the oxygen concentration at sea level. To obtain accurate readings, the user must expose the oxygen sensor to free air at 0 elevation and an ambient temperature of 25 Deg C. This proves to be an impractical procedure and greatly complicates the usability of the product. PLX Devices wideband products do not require sensor calibration and come pre calibrated to “ideal free air” from a controlled laboratory environment.


High Operating Temperature:
Other wideband controller products on the market may require a heat sink to be installed on the oxygen sensor if the EGT (Exhaust Gas Temp) rises above ~550 Deg C. PLX Devices wideband products DO NOT require a heat sink to be installed and will function up to 850 Deg C. 850 Deg C is the maximum temperature the Bosch LSU sensor is design to operate. “PLX Critical Response Technology” has proven to be extremely reliable in high boost and high exhaust gas temperature applications.</TD></TR></TABLE>

from their forums.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">he LM-1 uses the same oxygen sensor, but the LM-1 "talks" to the oxygen sensor completely differently than the M-300. Without getting into too much detail, the LM-1 uses an unconventional approach to wideband o2 sensor control. It uses pulses of varying lengths to "talk" to the oxygen sensor verses the conventional current (Ip) method.

Some disadvantages to this unconventional method of o2 sensor control are:

1) Requires frequent calibration to free air
2) Susceptible to timing error at High EGT (requiring a heatsink)

The PLX wideband controllers will function with the oxygen sensor up to 850 deg C (the maximum limit of the bosch sensor). However, the LM-1 or any other Innovate wideband controller requires a heatsink to be installed at EGTs above 550 Deg C. Temperatures above this will often throw a "Timing Error." This problem is NOT experienced in PLX widebands. In short, problems seen in the LM-1 are not experienced in the PLX.

Here's more info if you're intersted.

http://www.plxdevices.com/AppN...y.pdf

Please let me know what your answers are to the questions above, we'll help you debug your problem.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Just posting what's out there.

USDM-EK4*

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by disamis &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">try aem...
</TD></TR></TABLE>

I thought u have to use the AEM EMS with there widebands?

( o )( o )

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 2point2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

"free air cal" is a disadvantage according to PLXDevices..

from their forums.

Just posting what's out there. </TD></TR></TABLE>

glad i went with PLX their product has worked very well for me and their support is quick and thorough.

an2ny888

wasn't there a wideband comparo in a magazine before? i think it was turbo or sport compact, does anybody remember who won?

2k.civic.si

http://innovatemotorsports.com...s.php

http://innovatemotorsports.com...3.php

and free air cal is good...as you use the sensor and it gets heat cycled the sensor itself will have a shift in output as resistance changes...if you cal to the internal resistor like the plx systems do then they will slowly become inaccurate with use...many have seen this who use dyno's with different widebands on the same setup...


Modified by 2k.civic.si at 11:40 AM 6/25/2006