Kanagias

Any help on my problem will much appreciated it.

Actually my set-up is 86.5 x 92 (2162cc, 13.5 C/R) on a Golden eagle sleeved B20 block. My engine made good power on the dyno…..but I have big problem burning head gaskets every 2000 miles and engine drinking coolant all the time.

I had try double stock head gasket (opened to 86.5mm) , Cometic custom MLS head gasket 86.5mm (0,060 inch thick) but nothing works for me.
I run now a custom headgasket (made from a machine shop here in Greece) with metal rings but I’m afraid that soon I have again the same problem..(as my engine start again to drinking coolant).

I am thinking that may the problem be one of the following:

1) As my head is totally shaved, may is not seating any more correctly?

2) My Arp head studs have been retorqued several times in the past (on different set-ups)?

3) Golden Eagle block has its sleeves installed 0,0039 inch higher that the rest of the block. Golden eagle advice that is a special sleeve installation process for better head gasket sealing (!!!!!) but I am start thinking that may this (in conjunction with 1 and 2) cause the problem?

As I said I’ll be grateful for any help or input on my problem?

My car is for weekend drive….not any drag or street race usage.

GSRcivicSon

is the block o-ringed? at this big of a bore it def should be.

PSI GUY

iTrader: (2)

O rings are set at 86 usually so you would be beyond where they would go. At 86.5, you don't have much options, I would make sure the block is decked and straight and have a custom gasket done but really you can't expect it to last at that bore.

PyroProblem

Can you see on the gasket where they are blowing/leaking?
Since you said your losing coolant I assume it's somewhere near the water jacket?

Perhaps upgrading the diameter of the head studs for more clamping force is an option?

I remember reading about someone with HG issues and they resolved it by torquing the head down as usual but then after letting the engine reach operating temperature, immediately pulling the valve cover and cams and re-torqueing the head down again.

What kinda power did your setup make if you don't mind? Sounds like a stout build!

Kanagias

Many thanks for your advice guys!

Yes unfortunately I can’t O-ring my block at 86.5mm (is too difficult for the machine shop) and it was a big mistake (my decision) to go that big bore for daily driving car.

I strongly recommend for B series guys to not go over 85.5mm bore.

Yes, the engine drinks coolant, and the problem is at the point the 1 cylinder meets the other cylinder (only 4mm material left because of the overbore).

PyroProblem, my engine made 252whp and 179lb/ft torque, on a very restrictive Dynapack (reading the same as local dynojets):


For comparison see a K22 and a F24 on the same dyno:



The power is incredible on the road. You kill most cars without even going on VTEC (set at 6000rpm).

Unfortunately I must change set-up if I’ll not find a solution with the headgasket.

I am thinking to use 2 stock (Golden Eagle 86.5mm) headgaskets and spray them with cooper..

PyroProblem

Nice numbers. If you know exactly Which cylinder is leaking, another option might be to try and reduce the cylinder pressure on that cylinder only (remove some timing from the offending cylinder) if you have individual cylinder timing control on your EMS.

Personally I don't think stacking gaskets on top of each other is gonna help but good luck anyways.

If look into larger diameter studs for more clamping pressure, heat cycling the engine and re-torquing the head while it's still warm, reducing the cylinder pressure via timing.

Are you absolutely sure your not seeing detonation/knock? What type of fuel are you using?

The pressure spikes from detonation/knock can blow HG too. Better the gasket be the weak link than the ringlands.

koczeka

Resurface head AND block, use new gasket, new set of bolts what should not over torqued (in 3 torque steps, best to measure bolt stretch until spec by ARP)... also make sure it's not detonating or preigniting.... And still not guarantee it will last forever. My 86.5 lasted about 6000miles before rod bearing and p2w clearance forced me me to give it up.

PyroProblem

IDK the number of times you can reuse arp studs, but I think any fastener torqued (stretched) enough times will eventually stay stretched to different degrees and will reduce clamping force.

Not much else you can do. Like mentioned, make sure both head and block are perfectly flat and your studs are stretched preventing sufficient clamping force.

PyroProblem

https://honda-tech.com/forced-induct...iling-3131575/

Check this out. Good info from helpful folks over in the FI forum.

Kanagias

Thank you very much guys for all your valuable input. I much appreciate it.

The engine regarding the fuel mix is running perfectly. My engine program tuner is maybe the best here in Greece (he tunnes Hondas for years with great success and reliability).

Last time I went to dyno, I didn't told him nothing and he immediately understand that something went wrong and even than the engine was drinking coolant!!

The head gasket is burnt at the point when the cylinders mate (only 4mm material left due to overbore). I have change 2 times headgasket already on this engine, and now I go for the 3rd time!!

The only I am thinking is that maybe the crankcase is very high on this engine and may I must add 1 crankcase oil surge tank on the headcover?



koczeka

I can make flat the surface of the head but I can't do the same with the block as is a golden eagle sleeved. Is step decked (as i explained previously) especially for better head gasket sealing!!!

Please check here:

K-Series Sleeving - The Bionic K - Honda Tuning Magazine

"Step Off!
To understand sinking, one must also be aware of step decks. A block must be decked to create a nearly perfect flat top in order to promote proper head gasket sealing. In a step deck, an even greater seal is achieved by machining the cylinders slightly higher than the rest of the deck. "

I don't know if this process realy helps on make thinks harder?


PyroProblem

I was thinking to use 2 GE headgaskets because I know that are stock Honda quality and spray them with copper on the weak points(?). I have already use Cometic MLS 0,060 inch thick headgasket and it last only 3000 miles.

Thank you very much for your input and the link with the re-torquing head studs instructions when the engine is warm. I will try it for sure this time. I let you know if will survive.


Guys, Do you know if Cometic make this type of headgaskets (with gas filled 0-rings) for Honda engines?


Cometic Phuzion Cylinder Head Gasket - Hot Rod Magazine


I asked some dealers and nobody knows anything about this type of headgasket..

jimmysxxl

Is Geartech building and tuning the engine ? Or are you just getting it dynoed there ?

Kanagias

No my engine was bild by Sifis racing. Geartech is responsible only for program tunning and dyno.

DDTECH

How much timing and fuel being used?

Kanagias

I really don't know. I am not involved in program tunning of the engine. I just paid the program tunner for that duty.

I only remember that he was saying that the engine likes rich mixture after 7000rpm (like the turbo cars!!) and that the air/fuel mixture was set at 12.5:1 (this was the day when we made 252whp on the dyno).

The timing should be at 22 or 23 degree advance ( i really don't remember). The cam gears left untouched at 0,0.

Fuel is 100 oct local from Greek pump gas station...is similar to US 93 pump gas.

Electronics are stock obd0!! PW0 ECU chipped. All the electronics are stock on that engine!!

jimmysxxl

Knowing the Tuner and Dyno and from mine and not only experiences i'd advise you to :

1. Get a new Headgasket made, Copper Spray the whole thing and install with Brand new ARP Hardware.

2. Change a Bloody tuner ! It's widely known that he is really overzealous with timing.

Also keep in mind that the Dyno you are using is way too optimistic.

Kanagias

Thank you for you advice.

Regarding my tuner I had tune 4 different engines in the past 7 years there. 1 B16 1.8 stroker, 1 B20 with stock sleeves 13.5 C/R !!!!!, 1 B21 sleeved ( same block as my current engine) 14.5 C/R on pump gas!!!! and now the above B22!!!! All my above engines worked perfectly (with except the last engine and the problem with headgasket, anyway this was my decision and i don't think that anyone in Greece has ever tried 86.5mm bore on B series engines..).

All my set-ups make incredible power. I can write a book with my dynographs...I have many dynographs from local Dynojet, TAT and Maha dynos (the so caled "low reading" dynos)...I know exactly what the dyno of Geartech is reading.....actually is the most low reading of all!!! but in Greece the Geartech haters are many!!!

jimmysxxl

Not trying to bust your ***** or anything i am just sayin that dyno and tuner is sketchy at best. Just look at the vids you posted.