DCFIVER

I know right. This dude just continually makes excuses. It so easy to say "too bad for you" when it did not happen to you....

GhostAccord

I can see what 00red is saying though. If you are one of these people who are running a $8-10K+ race engine. Or someone who is looking to get that last tenth/hundredth of a second out of your engine to help put food on the table. Why the F#@k would you send your head to a guy that basically ports out of his mothers basement? Not sure if he did or not, However, it seemed to me his setup was pretty low tech.

DCFIVER

Well I get that, they made poor decisions,does that mean they deserved to get screwed? Too bad for them? Thats what y'all get for going down to Steves Head Porting and Taco Shack for service? Yeah thats it. Lets turn this around on the victims and say its all their fault.



Or not. They got ripped off....

NAH2B

its not like CC was advertising low end work, he made it clear RLZ was a mentor and he claimed to learn alot from Brad. sure the customer could assume the work would be low end from the pricing but he made promises he couldnt deliver so i cant see putting that soley on the customer and saying "thats what you get"...plus the pricing for the race heads wasnt that cheap anyway...

its no more the customers fault than it is CC's.

i dont know why we are even discussing whos fault it is anyway, this thread is simply a heads up for awareness. it doesnt matter whos fault it is or who should have done what, its over and done with now and CC is no longer doing heads so its not like people will keep getting screwed moving forward.

if the cheerleader wants to keep discussing it feel free, its good to keep the thread @ the top for people coming in later who could benefit from seeing it

GhostAccord

No they do not deserved to get screwed. Unfortunately there are a few retailers out there that are only out to get a few bucks from the less informed and scram..... CCCylinder heads is gone...... Hopefully no one else is going to be engaging in their services.

Also no one is saying that this is an "It's all your fault" issue. I'm not turning anything on the purchaser "victim"...lol. Other than maybe, the victim should have chosen a better bed partner or maybe done some more research. Perhaps out side of H-T!

00Red_SiR

CC was advertising broad porting work, which is fine since he was a business and business' advertise. Maybe Brad was a mentor and he did learn a lot from him but at that point it's still just words because he had no proven reputation behind him. If I think I'm great and I throw around a few big names and say I know them, does that make me great? Does it give me top notch credibility? What if I advertise it on the internet? Does charging a lot of money for my head porting mean you will get the best? If it does, then I'll gladly post my paypal info here along with some big names and promises and you can all send me your money now.

Regardless of what Steve promised, a person would still be taking a big risk on getting what they wanted. Ghost Accord thought about using his services, started researching him, didn't feel confident that Steve could give him what he wanted, so he passed on his services. At the end of the day, he was happy and went another route where he was comfortable. I did the same thing but felt confident Steve could give me what I wanted and he did. See the idea here? Instead of blindly puting faith into something or someone, do your homework first and make sure that the person can give YOU exactly what you want, before you part with your hard earned money.

I completely agree with this, they would be equally at fault.

We're discussing "who's fault it is" because this thread was starting to bash Steve which I didn't feel was entirely fair. Both the customers and Steve shared equally in what happened here. If the thread had stayed a simple awareness thread, I never would have said a word.

You're welcome

NAH2B

you have your own opinion and thats fine even though it differs from most others here. you may feel differently if you were one of the people this thread is meant to help.

you still choose to view and post here clearly to defend CC even though this thread doesnt pertain to you. you claim this thread was meant to bash CC. your wrong. nobody bashed CC, people posted FACTS. its nobodys fault other than CC's if those FACTS show him in a negative light.

the fact of the matter is, just like any other business people trusted CC to deliver what he advertised and was contracted to provide. CC failed to deliver to some of those here and thats what this thread is about.

you can keep chiming in and saying the same thing over and over again but it doesnt change the FACTS. the only fact you have contributed is that you are happy w/ your cylinder head from CC. thats really all you can say because everything else your muttering is your OPINION.

Rinzler

People like 00Red_SiR are hilarious. Look at how much effort he's putting into defending CC (someone I assume has no relationship to him other then previously rendering porting services). I've always found it strange that some people who have no vested interest are so gung ho to defend people they don't know.

Now just imagine if 00Red_SiR was ripped off. He'd be posting in every porting thread on the internet about his experience

alterdcreations

WOW......c/c a rip off artist? say it aint so....lol

00Red_SiR

That my friend is your opinion. If I was one of those people that didn't get what I paid for, I'd be upset too but I would do what they have all done and accept my responsibility in it, deal with it and move on since Steve is no longer in business and nothing I say here will matter other than a bitching thread. You were and are, the only one that can't let this go, and if all you really wanted to do was create awareness here, you would have ignored me a long time ago.

I have never defended CC, I have maintained that he should be held responsible for sub-par work and that I honestly do feel bad for the guys that didn't get what they wanted. This thread pertains to me more than it ever did to you since I was a customer of Steve's, had a head done and can convey my experience like others have. The only reason I said anything in this thread is to maintain some sort of perspective from the fear fest it was creating for no reason. Again I go back to what RLZ said himself about this whole thread being a witch hunt. If those aren't FACTS, I don't know what is. I have no problem with the facts but the facts say that the majority of people Steve did work for, got what they wanted and that should be stated in a thread like this.

You're right about that and I made sure you didn't lose sight of that FACT.

I'll keep chiming in to make sure that anyone that sees this thread gets a very clear picture of what really happened, so they can make an informed decision about any head they may have had done by Steve. If you want to keep trying to skew everything I have been saying, as if this thread is somehow about me, defending Steve, or denying the facts, I will continue to come back and correct you.

lol.... I had a bad experience with a very prominent person/business on this board in the past, so according to you, I would have made a bitch thread about it. Good luck finding it bud....

Rinzler

What was your "bad experience"? They didn't respond to an inquiry email?

NAH2B

im done arguing w/ 00redsir, its not worth wasting any more of my time. he is entitled to his own opinion however distorted it may be.

to those of you who had CC do your race heads, sorry for you guys. i dont feel its your fault at all. CC promised something and didnt deliver. thats not your fault in any way.

jdmcivic2fast

Hey Randy who does the best heads now?

00Red_SiR

Have a look back through this thread and if you really want the best and don't want to risk everything on advertising, promises, and no established reputation or shop, you'll see that I have mentioned them more than a few times. Randy knows they're the best too, they always were.

jdmcivic2fast

I want to hear from Randy!

00Red_SiR

Hey Randy......the sheep need tending....lol

2point6

I was refered to Steve by a prominent racer here on HT. His reputation and the fact that he was running great times with one of Steve's heads lead me to explore this as an option. Many of you know me over the years, so this was not any way of finding the "cheapest" service out there. Money was never an issue. What I was looking for was someone who said they could fill my needs, plain and simple.

I talked to steve through PM. I exchanged flowsheet information about what I had currently and Steve was very specific that he could improve greatly on my results. I expressed to Steve directly that I had airflow tested many different heads in the past and that not a single one ever came close to what the head porter claimed they would do. Steve told me this would not be the case when doing business with him.

Steve and I agreed on an airflow "target" , so I sent him my money upfront.

The work was performed in a reasonable time frame and I was happy when I received my head back from him... until I went and had it flow tested.

The flow results were about 25cfm less across all lift ranges compared to even my previously run cylinder head, that I was trying to improve on in the first place. I PM'ed Steve and right away with my results and he said "Doesn't sound like my head." Well it was and through our discussion, we decided that I would put the engine together and redyno the car to verify my results.

On the dyno, I lost 25whp.

Steve told me to send it back. Prior to sending it back, I took 3 different H22 cylinder heads back to the testing facility, just to be sure there was not a mistake in measurement. All the result were confirmed, Steve's head performing the worst.

While comparing the other 2 heads, We noticed that the valves on Steve's head would move .015" side to side. We then looked at my Vance & Hines head (I have nearly 70K miles on this head from another previous build) The valves only moved .008" side to side and considering the mileage, that was IMO, great! I checked the 3rd CNC head and found the results to be identicle to the V&H head.

I PM'ed Steve again asking about the valve to guide clearance and he said that the .015" movement was normal and not to worry about it. He did say that he would look at that once I sent the head back.

I waited patiently for Steve to let me know what was going on. He did tell me that he was moving on to another career and was getting out of head porting. I told him that this was now a big concern to me. What reason would he have to fix or improve my cylinder head if he wasn't going to be in the industry anymore? Steve assured that this would not be the case and that he was a man of his word.

Waiting... waiting... waiting... no return messages or PM's, No Phone calls answered.

I made a post here on HT calling Steve out, which he did not comment to. I kept this post business like and did not specify exactly what my issue was. All I wanted was Steve to follow up with me, but that did not happen either.

Steve abandoned me.

Only until Sammy (flatbush projects)stepped in and actually contacted Steve directly, did I see the possibility of getting my head back. I had already contacted my attorney and was taking steps to recoup my losses, that my cylinder head showed back up.

I just had the airflow test redone, and the head now flows as promised, but I still have the sloppy guide issue.

At this point, this thread does very little, but it should only serve as awareness to the new shopper. In this industry, there are promises made all the time and not delivered on. You have to protect yourself ALWAYS. Had I not had the ability to test these results, or make measurements, I would be at the mercy of the person providing me the service and their promises. In this case, it was a real struggle to get what I was promised.

NAH2B

damn Scott, it sucks you had to go through all that trouble. at least you got the head back and flowing good. id be willing to bet steve didnt re-do the porting himself to get those numbers, otherwise he would have just done it the first time around.

are you gonna replace the guides and use the head? id rather them be loose than to tight btw. gotta account for that play anyway when you measure v2v just squeeze the valves together while you measure...

NAH2B

i would say Brad (RLZ) finds more flow than anyone else

2point6

It's too bad things went this way... My only hope, is that people learn from this and verify what they are promised. I only know this from my own experiences of getting taken advantage of. I have been doing this H22 stuff for a long time and have had all kinds of heads tested (on the same flowbench) over the years. I have seen companies come and go. Most that go, fail to deliver on what they promise. Even big names, like Bisi have left me scratching my head wondering just how they stay in business. This is a bit off subject, but this guy has left me hanging more than any other. I wish I hadn't gone on blind faith in his case. I relied too much on his reputation rather than really verifying what I was purchasing. I won't even go into discussing the head I got from him...

To date, only two Head porters delivered on their promise to me in a timely matter. Vance & Hines and Portflow. I haven't used either company in years, but I still have engines running 8 years and longer with their heads. I give a thumbs up to these guys!

Consistently though, throughout the years one name stands out unlike any other and that is Brad at RLZ. I have not used him personally, but I have talked to him off and on over the years. This man has definitely withstood the test of time.

I do intend on using this CCC head for a while, but I will be sending another to Brad in the near future. I have made so many changes to my program, that I really need to step back and just create a new baseline. Get some passes in my car that are consistent then I can worry about making more power.

q16racer

I told myself the same thing. Get some seat time then worry about more power later. Yea...here I am, spending my tax return lol

crazes

x2

michaelprice83

This point may have already been made but I'll make it again. Steve had a ton of nutswingers on Honda-Tech and other boards, enough for someone with no prior experience with Steve deem him reputable. I blame the guys who had work done and vouched for his quality without actually knowing whether their heads performed well or not. Look up the Honda cylinder head threads on various forums and Steve was plugged countless times by a few of you guys.