miller

i think the rules are pretty straight forward and to the point. simple just the way it shoud be..............Miller

RPRacing

how will all OEM parts be MSRP? ie, core block, head. you cant just take the MSRP or the bare block because if a customer buys just that, all the nuts and bolts, brackets, etc will not be included? I think both the block and the head should be included in the build.

Innovation

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RPRacing &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">how will all OEM parts be MSRP? ie, core block, head. you cant just take the MSRP or the bare block because if a customer buys just that, all the nuts and bolts, brackets, etc will not be included? I think both the block and the head should be included in the build.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Block, crank and head are not going to be factored into the MSRP total. This will be based on a core motor, as if a customer was to supply these parts for the build.

Gen2ITR

Not to step into a realm that I do not belong, but...

Rick have you asked Scott (2point6) to enter this contest?
I know he isnt the best known builder out there, but I believe he can be very competitive in this arena...

Just an Idea

Josh

Innovation

Well, I may be seeing Scott this weekend (from what I remember hes down in cali for the weekend) if so Ill bring it up then, if not Ill give him a call on tuesday and see if hed be interested.

EKhatch

Looks good Rick. I think that no matter what you do there will always be discrepancies in build cost.

dc24me

this is an awesome shootout.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Innovation &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Does anybody have any recomendations on alternative judging criteria?</TD></TR></TABLE>

have the setup be more streetable and pass cali smog emissions/visual check on pump gas. basically have more of a more realistic to the builder build. superhigh compression and itbs are nice, but the majority of the readers will not be using these in their build.

there's not really anything wrong with calling this a honda-tech buildoff, as it seems like it is the best forum our their for our cars, the equivalent of vwvortex or bimmerforums/roadfly i mean, just look at all the different aspects of the industry who post if not lurk in these forums.

as for the professional versus amateur builder entrries and general judging format, i think you could look at early 90s iasca judging criteria (car audio sound quality competition) to get ideas for how it is scored. you can give points for hp/tq increase over baseline, have a section that judges the dyno plots over the entire powerband. Gives points for how smooth the power band is on a dyno plot, like a real time analysis for car audio. You get points for how smooth your frequency response is without many peaks or drip in the curve. in car stereo you got point on the system noise, on the motor buildoff it could be how well it idles, etc...

BERT-O

coo coo




Modified by BERT-O at 2:05 AM 7/3/2005

BERT-O

coo coo

BERT-O

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by omniman &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i have a few questions.

1. if ppl all over the country enter, where will the dyno testing be done?

2. will there be multiple locations?

3. or will ppl have to fly out to the dyno place and have their motors shipped as well? the cost will be too great for most.

4. what is the maximum enigne size?

5. what gas will everyone have to use?

6. what time frame do contestants have to build the motor?

7. what is the prize for winning?


Suggestions:

A: use a very inexpensive motor such as a b16 or b20 and require all contestants to use the same block

B: have everyone use the same type of intake manifold. ex use either a plenum or itbs. to keep the playing feild even. the rules should be modeled around financial affordability.

C: maybe make it a spec class. where all the parts are preselected. so everyone has to use the same cam same intake same header etc.. it would be more affordable to buy one of each part and have the contestants just build the long blocks. then ship them and install the other parts.

these are just ideas.

if you really want this to become a reality it has to be simple and affrodable with clearly defined rules.

good luck</TD></TR></TABLE>

[b]"not tryn' to be any side but damn, he's got a good point"

BERT-O

Modified by BERT-O at 8:37 AM 7/5/2005

rjay8604

I like those rules, sounds really good to me.

BERT-O

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by George Knighton &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

It'd be a small matter to send copies of receipts, but if labour is supposed to be part of the $8,000 then that could be a problem.

I really must learn to keep my mouth shut and stay in threads where I know what I'm talking about.

:x</TD></TR></TABLE>

u know, he's got a point

BERT-O

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by George Knighton &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

It'd be a small matter to send copies of receipts, but if labour is supposed to be part of the $8,000 then that could be a problem.

I really must learn to keep my mouth shut and stay in threads where I know what I'm talking about.

:x</TD></TR></TABLE>


It would be more apporiate if all reciipts were posted on the forum, but then again, "who I'm I"!

_Bet

BERT-O

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by blundar &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Sounds like a pretty fair competition to me. I think you should allow Uberdata too for management tho because it does a fine job for most NA setups.</TD></TR></TABLE>

BERT-O

Modified by BERT-O at 8:36 AM 7/5/2005

Innovation

Depending on how this shoot out goes, there may others to follow...

H/F series shoot out may be a possibility ::shrugs::

Professor15

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Innovation &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Depending on how this shoot out goes, there may others to follow...

H/F series shoot out may be a possibility ::shrugs::</TD></TR></TABLE>screw that! K-series baby!!!

EKhatch

I think that saying Bert-O is excited about this would be the understatement of the year.

Bert-O=Post *****. lol

S2 INSIDER

thats a decision that they would have to make.

you should just call them or email them.

DonF

Well, there are a few too many rules to allow free thinking. I think that is what alot of this is about. I have diff idea's than Brad, Dave, Seth, Larry, JG, etc.
The MSRP thing is simple, have a claimer rule, people can register for a fee to claim any of the engines for a price $8000.00 sounds good. Cash or Cert ck and you get the engine.
Why a plenum manifold? If I decide to give up some CC's, use a CRV block, I save $850.00-$950.00 in sleeving, SK or Victor manifold I save $250-300., Big TB I save $300.00, cut open port manifold I save $200-300.00, fuel rail, sensors I save $125-175.00. for that I can put on ITB's. That should be my choice if you are going to claim the engine.
Headers should be free and not included with the engine. I spend alot of time with SMSP and RMF, as does Larry with HYTEC, Skunk with ther own design, and RLZ with there's. Oh and don't let me forget Hookups.
ECU's should be free and not included, unless you are getting some free and supplying them.

NC-B17A

The motors are limited to 93 oct. this makes them steet motors. How about some kind of longevity test. I have seen people build motors that use pump gas that made big hp numbers that barely lasted past the dyno day. Look at the WD40 shootout there were 2 maybe 3 blown motors there.
I am not pointing fingers but there have been people selling "kits" for builds that start having problems after just 6000 miles of street use.
just an idea

EK Josh

This is looking good

jt-sport

when it may be held ??

Innovation

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TOO &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Other than getting us further behind in our work, I don't see what purpose it would serve....especially since we can't possibly do more business than we already have.
With the track record the "organizer" has, I'd be very surprised if the contest ever takes place....</TD></TR></TABLE>

Ill ignore the little comment in his post, but as expected, hes trying to find an excuse not to compete.

Well, heres the answer to that:

Seeing that he already has his "civic power" motor together that meets the criteria of the rules thus far, he can just use that engine and not have to worry about losing any time. Its already together, running and tuned.