K20 or stay B series
08-05-2003, 10:19 AM
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Re: K20 or stay B series (80884)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 80884 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Keep in mind B series parts are begining to become extinct. The series will be gone some day. The parts won't be laying around anymore, the prices will go up, and you will be better of with the K series. If i had a choise, I would take the K anyday. They respond good to simple bolt ons, wait till people start opening these things up. Your question will no longer be a question. </TD></TR></TABLE>
08-05-2003, 10:26 AM
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Re: (ransack)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ransack »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> Someone I think will make some kinda of wiring harness?!</TD></TR></TABLE>
..it`s in the works (not by me).
..it`s in the works (not by me).
08-05-2003, 10:40 AM
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Re: (vtecvoodoo)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vtecvoodoo »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
..it`s in the works (not by me).</TD></TR></TABLE>
As in a mass produced harness people could buy?
..it`s in the works (not by me).</TD></TR></TABLE>
As in a mass produced harness people could buy?
08-05-2003, 05:33 PM
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Re: (AussieB20vtec)
Probably not quite that much, but on my dyno, the power that bolt-on RSX puts out is only a few hp down on a high 10-second all-motor Honda. I think you could easily go low 11's at about 118-120 mph if you can hook it up.
C_A_T
C_A_T
08-05-2003, 10:56 PM
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Re: (wm5holla)
I got really lucky and got mine with 800 miles on it for 3k a complete change over and access to the wrecked car anytime i want to misc plugs parts ..blah blah blah
..
..
08-06-2003, 02:48 AM
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Re: (K20 EG)
Well the wheels are in motion. Got a quote today for 2000 US for k20 and box. Organising a think tank between some friends and sponsors. C A T: I'll be in touch hehehe
08-06-2003, 03:49 AM
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Re: K20 or stay B series (genius)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by genius »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">hydro shifter?ok
you got that one twisted</TD></TR></TABLE>
i was gonna say something too but i wasnt gonna be as nice.
When its a "Hydro Tranny" there talking about the Clutch Line not the Shift Linkage.
"Cable Tranny" = Older tranny's with a Cable Line for the Clutch. Pre-"93 Integra's
"Cable Linkage" = Accords, Preludes, RSX and SI's...
you got that one twisted</TD></TR></TABLE>
i was gonna say something too but i wasnt gonna be as nice.
When its a "Hydro Tranny" there talking about the Clutch Line not the Shift Linkage.
"Cable Tranny" = Older tranny's with a Cable Line for the Clutch. Pre-"93 Integra's
"Cable Linkage" = Accords, Preludes, RSX and SI's...
08-06-2003, 06:38 AM
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Re: K20 or stay B series (10K2HVN)
I am with you on the idea of the k swap. I have been researching it for a while and am in the same set of shoes you are in....undecided. I love my B series but it all comes down to MORE OEM POWER. This gives you an awesome base to start interms of reliability and potential. I am excellent in electrical and can make my own mounts but the funds shy me from attempting this. 
Good luck 
Good luck
08-06-2003, 09:04 AM
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Re: K20 or stay B series (sleeprhatch)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sleeprhatch »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> I am with you on the idea of the k swap. I have been researching it for a while and am in the same set of shoes you are in....undecided. I love my B series but it all comes down to MORE OEM POWER. This gives you an awesome base to start interms of reliability and potential. I am excellent in electrical and can make my own mounts but the funds shy me from attempting this. Good luck </TD></TR></TABLE>
Yeah the results I'm seeing from K's with bolt ons are the same as fully built B series. If I fully build a B, I (roughly) know how much power it's gonna produce. With the K, who knows the limits.....
Good luck </TD></TR></TABLE>Yeah the results I'm seeing from K's with bolt ons are the same as fully built B series. If I fully build a B, I (roughly) know how much power it's gonna produce. With the K, who knows the limits.....
08-06-2003, 10:25 AM
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Re: K20 or stay B series (80884)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 80884 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Keep in mind B series parts are begining to become extinct. The series will be gone some day. The parts won't be laying around anymore, the prices will go up, and you will be better of with the K series. If i had a choise, I would take the K anyday. They respond good to simple bolt ons, wait till people start opening these things up. Your question will no longer be a question. </TD></TR></TABLE>
i very much disagree. i think the bseries will have a huge following. There were soooo many made and now even manufactures producing blocks and heads. it won't be quite as big as the 302 mustang motor...but it won't be too too far off. just because the 4.6 took its place...the 302 has a huge following. I see the b-series being the Bisimoto of tomorrow. underdog taking people out.
k without a doubt is the immediate future without question and the strongest
i very much disagree. i think the bseries will have a huge following. There were soooo many made and now even manufactures producing blocks and heads. it won't be quite as big as the 302 mustang motor...but it won't be too too far off. just because the 4.6 took its place...the 302 has a huge following. I see the b-series being the Bisimoto of tomorrow. underdog taking people out.
k without a doubt is the immediate future without question and the strongest
08-06-2003, 12:19 PM
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Only thing about the B-series that I see affecting its future vs. the K-series - volume.
If you go back and look at the cars the B-series was offered in (current generation), you have the Integra, some Civics and the CRV for a couple of years (I'm ignoring the 1988-91 Preludes, etc.)
Over the life of the B-series Integra (1990-2001, 12 years), Honda probably sold an _average_ of 30-40k/yr in the US with a third or less being DOHC VTEC models. Let's assume double that in the world. The significant majority of those cars were not equipped with VTEC engines. That's about a million total engines. Add in the CRXs and Civics w/B-series motors (world wide) and we get to, what, maybe 1.5 million being optimistic?
Now, let's look at the K-series. Initially, it was just the RSX, which has averaged less than 30k units/yr in the US, again, maybe twice that world wide with about half being the Type-S variant. But, look beyond that to the other cars that Honda sells. There will be 300k K-series Accords rolling around by the end of the first model year of the Gen 7 Accord in the US alone. And the CRV is selling what, 100k units year? And the Element is on pace to sell 70k-80k units a year? And the TSX another 15k in the US with the _good_ i-VTEC setup. When you look at world wide demand (Euro Accord for example) it goes even higher. I'm willing to bet that by the end of 2005, there will be more K-series engines running around than there were B-series engines ever made thanks to the Accord/CRV/Element. The percentage skew towards the good K-series heads may initially be lower than it was toward the good B-series heads, but the sheer quantity will help make up for it and we still have the future to look forward to. And we all know how popular frankenstein setups tend to be.
C_A_T
If you go back and look at the cars the B-series was offered in (current generation), you have the Integra, some Civics and the CRV for a couple of years (I'm ignoring the 1988-91 Preludes, etc.)
Over the life of the B-series Integra (1990-2001, 12 years), Honda probably sold an _average_ of 30-40k/yr in the US with a third or less being DOHC VTEC models. Let's assume double that in the world. The significant majority of those cars were not equipped with VTEC engines. That's about a million total engines. Add in the CRXs and Civics w/B-series motors (world wide) and we get to, what, maybe 1.5 million being optimistic?
Now, let's look at the K-series. Initially, it was just the RSX, which has averaged less than 30k units/yr in the US, again, maybe twice that world wide with about half being the Type-S variant. But, look beyond that to the other cars that Honda sells. There will be 300k K-series Accords rolling around by the end of the first model year of the Gen 7 Accord in the US alone. And the CRV is selling what, 100k units year? And the Element is on pace to sell 70k-80k units a year? And the TSX another 15k in the US with the _good_ i-VTEC setup. When you look at world wide demand (Euro Accord for example) it goes even higher. I'm willing to bet that by the end of 2005, there will be more K-series engines running around than there were B-series engines ever made thanks to the Accord/CRV/Element. The percentage skew towards the good K-series heads may initially be lower than it was toward the good B-series heads, but the sheer quantity will help make up for it and we still have the future to look forward to. And we all know how popular frankenstein setups tend to be.
C_A_T
08-06-2003, 12:29 PM
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Re: K20 or stay B series (216.226.142.95:27016)
The Kseries definitly seems to be the future of all motor performance, but until some one comes up with a conversion harness or some kind of install kit I will stick with my Bseries. It is only a matter of time until some company fingures out a way to simplify the swap.
08-06-2003, 12:33 PM
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Re: K20 or stay B series (AussieB20vtec)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by AussieB20vtec »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'm torn with what to do with my car. I dont know whether to develop the B motor or yank it and go K. My B20vtec cant really go much more as far as camshafts are concerned due to piston to valve issues, so there is only bolt on tuning left in it. I was gonna set it all up ie ericks tb, itr im, headers and then build a strong B for it but I've been researching K motors and now I'm lost.
I think if I got mid 12's out of this motor (which shouldnt be that hard) I should be able to sell the motor for a decent amount. 250whp from a K seems pretty easy.
Then I see the power already being produced in a B (mackspeed for example) and then I think why bother changing.
H E L P ! ! ! ! ! ! ! Opinions please.... </TD></TR></TABLE>
The k-series is still maturing, the B-series is prolly at its peak with the amount of performance manfufacturers making parts for it. I have a k-series to start building and am somewhat in a similar boat, the problem with me is mounting and wiring for the chassis that I really would like to put the k-series swap into, like CRX and Civics. Speaking to a friend at Hasport, there isn;t much demand for that type of mounting kit and so no plans to make mounts ... sucks !!!
you also have to remember that you probalby haven't though of, is the ecu and ignition key needs to come with the swap or you're **** outta luck trying to find an ecu/key combo ...
Wait a few more years and let the k-series mature a lil bit, the b-series produces tremendous power to play with, even in the land down under
so be patient is my opinion.
Greg
I think if I got mid 12's out of this motor (which shouldnt be that hard) I should be able to sell the motor for a decent amount. 250whp from a K seems pretty easy.
Then I see the power already being produced in a B (mackspeed for example) and then I think why bother changing.
H E L P ! ! ! ! ! ! ! Opinions please.... </TD></TR></TABLE>
The k-series is still maturing, the B-series is prolly at its peak with the amount of performance manfufacturers making parts for it. I have a k-series to start building and am somewhat in a similar boat, the problem with me is mounting and wiring for the chassis that I really would like to put the k-series swap into, like CRX and Civics. Speaking to a friend at Hasport, there isn;t much demand for that type of mounting kit and so no plans to make mounts ... sucks !!!
you also have to remember that you probalby haven't though of, is the ecu and ignition key needs to come with the swap or you're **** outta luck trying to find an ecu/key combo ...
Wait a few more years and let the k-series mature a lil bit, the b-series produces tremendous power to play with, even in the land down under
so be patient is my opinion.Greg
08-06-2003, 12:33 PM
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Re: (C_A_T)
i absolutely agree shawn.
but this has never deterred the rotary fans. They are still out there and winning.
without question the kseries is the future but i don't see the b going away. It had far too much popularity. Not everyone raced their bseries motors. In fact most are probably driven to and from the food store. Its just as easy to locate a 94 teg block as it is a 2001.
but this has never deterred the rotary fans. They are still out there and winning.
without question the kseries is the future but i don't see the b going away. It had far too much popularity. Not everyone raced their bseries motors. In fact most are probably driven to and from the food store. Its just as easy to locate a 94 teg block as it is a 2001.
08-06-2003, 12:35 PM
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Re: (C_A_T)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by C_A_T »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Only thing about the B-series that I see affecting its future vs. the K-series - volume.
If you go back and look at the cars the B-series was offered in (current generation), you have the Integra, some Civics and the CRV for a couple of years (I'm ignoring the 1988-91 Preludes, etc.)
Over the life of the B-series Integra (1990-2001, 12 years), Honda probably sold an _average_ of 30-40k/yr in the US with a third or less being DOHC VTEC models. Let's assume double that in the world. The significant majority of those cars were not equipped with VTEC engines. That's about a million total engines. Add in the CRXs and Civics w/B-series motors (world wide) and we get to, what, maybe 1.5 million being optimistic?
Now, let's look at the K-series. Initially, it was just the RSX, which has averaged less than 30k units/yr in the US, again, maybe twice that world wide with about half being the Type-S variant. But, look beyond that to the other cars that Honda sells. There will be 300k K-series Accords rolling around by the end of the first model year of the Gen 7 Accord in the US alone. And the CRV is selling what, 100k units year? And the Element is on pace to sell 70k-80k units a year? And the TSX another 15k in the US with the _good_ i-VTEC setup. When you look at world wide demand (Euro Accord for example) it goes even higher. I'm willing to bet that by the end of 2005, there will be more K-series engines running around than there were B-series engines ever made thanks to the Accord/CRV/Element. The percentage skew towards the good K-series heads may initially be lower than it was toward the good B-series heads, but the sheer quantity will help make up for it and we still have the future to look forward to. And we all know how popular frankenstein setups tend to be.
C_A_T</TD></TR></TABLE>
Good point! I never thought of it this way. Sounds like K series will be really plentiful in a few years
If you go back and look at the cars the B-series was offered in (current generation), you have the Integra, some Civics and the CRV for a couple of years (I'm ignoring the 1988-91 Preludes, etc.)
Over the life of the B-series Integra (1990-2001, 12 years), Honda probably sold an _average_ of 30-40k/yr in the US with a third or less being DOHC VTEC models. Let's assume double that in the world. The significant majority of those cars were not equipped with VTEC engines. That's about a million total engines. Add in the CRXs and Civics w/B-series motors (world wide) and we get to, what, maybe 1.5 million being optimistic?
Now, let's look at the K-series. Initially, it was just the RSX, which has averaged less than 30k units/yr in the US, again, maybe twice that world wide with about half being the Type-S variant. But, look beyond that to the other cars that Honda sells. There will be 300k K-series Accords rolling around by the end of the first model year of the Gen 7 Accord in the US alone. And the CRV is selling what, 100k units year? And the Element is on pace to sell 70k-80k units a year? And the TSX another 15k in the US with the _good_ i-VTEC setup. When you look at world wide demand (Euro Accord for example) it goes even higher. I'm willing to bet that by the end of 2005, there will be more K-series engines running around than there were B-series engines ever made thanks to the Accord/CRV/Element. The percentage skew towards the good K-series heads may initially be lower than it was toward the good B-series heads, but the sheer quantity will help make up for it and we still have the future to look forward to. And we all know how popular frankenstein setups tend to be.
C_A_T</TD></TR></TABLE>
Good point! I never thought of it this way. Sounds like K series will be really plentiful in a few years
08-06-2003, 01:03 PM
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Re: (C_A_T)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by C_A_T »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Aussie,
We've already had RSX's here in the US go 13.1@106 on slicks with bolt-on parts. 60 ft times in the 1.8s and a race weight (w/driver) of over 2900 lbs. Its amazing how much power there is in these motors and people haven't even scratched the surface yet.
I would imagine that your car w/driver probably weighs closer to 2000 lbs, so even with the disadvantage of street tires, I think you could still blow your old times out of the water with a bolt-on, stock internal K20A that would run for years without a rebuild. If you're willing to go high compression pistons, custom cams, headwork, etc. you could go much faster.
Power mods for the car I mentioned were AEM CAI, Comptech race header, exhaust, Toda cams, ITR intake manifold, oversize TB and Hondata reflash. If you're starting with a K20A, you could go almost as fast on the ITR cams.
Its the future, and you could be a pioneer if you want to.
C_A_T</TD></TR></TABLE>
yea...thats why i started as soon as i found a changeover
im tossing in a mix with Itb's toda kit and im going to Church auto testing to have that dude see what it pulls on the dyno
eta a couple weeks ...bug free in theory
P.s i hope this one wont puke coolant like my B-20 did
We've already had RSX's here in the US go 13.1@106 on slicks with bolt-on parts. 60 ft times in the 1.8s and a race weight (w/driver) of over 2900 lbs. Its amazing how much power there is in these motors and people haven't even scratched the surface yet.
I would imagine that your car w/driver probably weighs closer to 2000 lbs, so even with the disadvantage of street tires, I think you could still blow your old times out of the water with a bolt-on, stock internal K20A that would run for years without a rebuild. If you're willing to go high compression pistons, custom cams, headwork, etc. you could go much faster.
Power mods for the car I mentioned were AEM CAI, Comptech race header, exhaust, Toda cams, ITR intake manifold, oversize TB and Hondata reflash. If you're starting with a K20A, you could go almost as fast on the ITR cams.
Its the future, and you could be a pioneer if you want to.
C_A_T</TD></TR></TABLE>
yea...thats why i started as soon as i found a changeover
im tossing in a mix with Itb's toda kit and im going to Church auto testing to have that dude see what it pulls on the dyno
eta a couple weeks ...bug free in theory
P.s i hope this one wont puke coolant like my B-20 did
08-06-2003, 01:05 PM
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Re: (K20 EG)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by K20 EG »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
yea...thats why i started as soon as i found a changeover
im tossing in a mix with Itb's toda kit and im going to Church auto testing to have that dude see what it pulls on the dyno
eta a couple weeks ...bug free in theory
P.s i hope this one wont puke coolant like my B-20 did
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Let me know when, I know Shawn and would like to swing by..
yea...thats why i started as soon as i found a changeover
im tossing in a mix with Itb's toda kit and im going to Church auto testing to have that dude see what it pulls on the dyno
eta a couple weeks ...bug free in theory
P.s i hope this one wont puke coolant like my B-20 did
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Let me know when, I know Shawn and would like to swing by..
08-06-2003, 03:27 PM
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Re: (K20 EG)
Haha, well, if the bottom end is stock (and the cooling system too), then you should have no worries. That's why the K is so incredible. Built b-series output on factory block, head and cams (ITR). No worries about whether you forgot to tighten that rod bolt 
C_A_T
C_A_T