JinMTVT

I am looking ( as lots of you are!! ;p )
for a set of cams to put in a B16a2 .

Vtec is for me, a good way to build 2 life into a single engine.
One can tune and engine to make good power form low to high rpm,
compromising a little of both into the cam profiles.

But the thing is that we can also seperate completly normal operation from vtec operation in optimising non vtec for economy, and vtec for high power in upper rpm range.

So i am looking for cams that will be super aggressive on vtec lobes
( long duration, good ramps, high lift )
yet almost identical to stock primary and secondary lobes for sub 5Krpm operation
( wich is what i use 90% on the street neway )

I am not looking for more power under 5k, even loosing some to fuel economy would be cool, since when i want to go fast, it's pretty easy to work between 5K and 9K where the power is!

Do you guys know ( and when i mean KNOW it's like in you have proofs, numbers, personal experience -- > not based on what u read here and there on the net)
of any cams that use stock-like small lobes combined to aggressive vtec lobes?

I was told in here ( can't remember from who ) that Skunk2 Stage 3 cams
uses almost stock small lobes, and high lift/duration vtec lobes that make some quite good upper range power... but then, almost everybody here says that IDLE and stage 3 aren't compatible .. i would like to know the truth about that?

don't say that stage 3 = no idle if you don't have experience, or primary/secondary lobes specs!

I know that Crower makes cams that have a oem like lower lobes, but their duration and lift numbers on the vtec lobes doesn't interest me much
( not enough top end )

What about the Wicked( blox??) tuner B ( stage 2? ) cams?
how are the small lobes on that?

Please keep in mind that compression is going to be high enough
( no not 13:1 .. but i can manage pretty well with 11.5:1 with most cams)
and intake/head/exhaust are going to be optimized for high rpm operation.


Also, don't you guys find weird that copmanies that sell 500$+USD for a set of cams, aren't even able to put GOOD specifications on their website?
i mean, for the price we pay, i intended to have all specifications available on the cams, from low lobes numbers, to vtec lobes ramp details ...
that's really frustrating

+ it seems that most information sources on the internet just take their numbers from everywhere, and people then rely on those... neway

also please see here comparison link of Skunk2 2-3 and toda cams from http://www.importreview.com

i thought that stage 3 would make more top end than stage 2, is there something wrong here?



thanks all for your time ...

LSVTEC 91 Civic

From Crower's website...

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">1. Hardfacing - Welding up stock lobes (if VTEC, mid only) to allow unlimited spec while maintaining stock base circle. Cost $40 per lobe plus $100 per cam for the grinding. VTEC weld is only on mid lobe (8 lobes + grinding = $520 total). You supply stock cores. VTEC specs listed above are available on hardfaced cores. Full drag race, road race, turbo or nitrous. No wear or compatibility issues.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Tbone

Skunk stage 3's are 100% what your asking for here..
Yes I do because I have run these cams all in my motor which you can find hundreds of posts about here.. Most with before and after dyno plots.
I was the person who told you this. And yes I have dyno to show the powere up top these can make.
Anyone here who told you this has never run these cams or doesnt know how to tune a Damm radio neveless a car( stole that quote from Lip..lol)

Can you please post the names of all who say stage 3's dont idle ..I would like them to post their credentials on the subject.
Ok this will once again start net bashing but I'll say it 1 last time i case you havent seen it..
Wicked/blox/IB Stages 1,2,3 cams are SKUNK profiles..they buy them from the same manufacturer and slap their name on them...not alittle different not any different.. SAME EXACT CAM .. and dont post the advertised specs because if you copy something you sure the heck wont publicly admit it because you can possibly get into leagal trouble for that.
EACH MOTOR IS DIFFERENT and will yeaild different results..
Heres my plot on my motor, only differenc is cams..
You can plainly see that the skunk stage 3's beat the 2's in my motor.
Red Is skunk stage 3
Green is skunk stage 2
Blue is Rocket Motorsports m24e


I have personally run all these cams, dynoed them and driven on them.... I want to see all the others who claim they know to come back themselves up like I can.

I think you need to keep your stock cams and buy a nitrous system. the results you want are more comparable to that type of induction.


edit removed peak from my list as thats the only one i havent personally seen,


Modified by Tbone at 8:18 PM 12/21/2004

flesh199

thx tbone
your real feedback is so apreciated

JinMTVT

Thank you very much Tbone, i thought it was you but i didn't even check the other thread

that was exactly what i am asking for, PROOFS!

and you got them ...so skunk 3 give more top end power
but run on smaller "normal" lobes ..wich shouldn't have any problems at all with idle and sub 5K operation right ?

is there any copycats of the skunk 3 on the market? ( form blox/wicked or others?)
wich could be less expensive... if not or too complicated i'll just buy the S2S3

I won't post a list of all who said that stage 3 = no idle...but it would be long!!
ahhaha ..just do a search on idle and cams

and about the nos, i don't ever wanna get that **** in my car
i don't even like to think about it... + having the bottle around ..bah
for me nitrous doesn't count! there is no honor on this one
hahaha ( no flame intended to nos users here, just personal taste question )

so i'd like to work it out N/A style, i don't want 200+ who numbers
just want super top end and econo non vtec engine !
like honda is designed to be


What do you say about the Stage 3 on my B16a Tbone?

that is what i am planning quick quick :

engine will be balanced ( if i can find a stupid scale, it should be down to 0.01g on the piston/rods assembly )
CTR or some rip off coated pistons to boost the CR
maybe 10 to 30 thousands off the head
quick head work and port matching done by me
blox IM or ITR + some work on it
2-3mm ob TB
valve springs of course
Uberdate tunned ecu
4-1 2.5"+ outlet a la jdm shoudl be enough i guess

maybe gonna upgrade the fuel if i need when i'll tune using my wideband 02

+ good cams .. probably stage 3 after the testimonial of tbone

ShaunRR

Firstly, I wouldn't worry about larger primary lobe messing up your idle. If your tuner knows what he is doing, it shouldn't be too much of a problem.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JinMTVT &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
is there any copycats of the skunk 3 on the market? ( form blox/wicked or others?)
wich could be less expensive... if not or too complicated i'll just buy the S2S3
</TD></TR></TABLE>

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tbone &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Ok this will once again start net bashing but I'll say it 1 last time i case you havent seen it..
Wicked/blox/peak/IB Stages 1,2,3 cams are SKUNK profiles..they buy them from the same manufacturer and slap their name on them...not alittle different not any different.. SAME EXACT CAM .. and dont post the advertised specs because if you copy something you sure the heck wont publicly admit it because you can possibly get into leagal trouble for that.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Although I thought the Peak/Dynamic cams were different. However, you know more about this stuff than I do Tom, so if you say they are the same I trust your word on cams.

Tbone

Actually i have never personally had a set of peaks in front of me so i'll retract that commet and say I've been told that they were the same as well.

ShaunRR

They are the exact same thing as Dynamic Autosport cams right? They didn't update them at all with the name change or anything did they?

I thought for sure you would have had a set of Dynamic cams before.

JinMTVT

The point here is not only IDLE
but the fact that i do not intend to use any good power under vtec point
and that b16a is going into a teg, with wich i intend to use on street
and i must do 1 hour of highway every time i wanna get out of where i live so
i need an economic way to get the car out of there...

neway, i just don't want anything more than b16a2 primary/sec lobes
vtec point is where i want it to hurl!

rodimus

TBone, don't you have thosk skunk2 stage3's for sale??

Tbone

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EVOL &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">TBone, don't you have thosk skunk2 stage3's for sale??

</TD></TR></TABLE>

I do but would not post that here because I dont want people to think that this is why I suggested them.. Even If I wasnt selling a set , for the explantion of what he wants, I would suggest skunk 3's for off the shelf cams.. Otherwise I would get Rocket to just cut down the primarys on a set of m22's.

JinMTVT

what do you think of OBX stage 3 ripoffs?

from the specs they are identical to skunk2's S3
and from what some say, they might be identical up to the manuf.

??? the price is way better on the obx ~350$ than on the skunk2!!
for the same price as the S2S3 i'd have cams + springs

Tbone

Well does obx offer a stage 1 2 and 3 cam...if so you know that those probably are the same too.. Skunk lost the exclusive deal with their manufacturer, so now anyone who wants to buy in can.