Tpunep

Hi,guys.I'm new to tuning engines and I'm looking to make some extra power with a limited budget.I drive a stock EG6,the motor is in great shape,no oil burning and no power loss.I got my hands on a cheap head from a 96 integra type r B18c,not the GSR.Is this a good upgrade over the stock head? I know the head of the b18c and the b16a2 are the exact same castings,but the b18c has samo mild factory porting and of course the better cams and valvetrain? Basically the question here is,which one is better,should i swap on the type r head,or should I invest in some cam's springs retainers.I know that aftermarket would probably be better,but in my case that would be almost 2 times more expensive.My car is daily driven,I'm not looking for huge power gains.I'll also be investing in a good cheap header with a straight 2.5 pipe with an ebay muffler, a whale ***** intake (the cheap rep). And probably some cheap CTR pistons,stock bore.
I know it's been covered a million times,but I could find info for that exact setup.
I want to know,is this a good start?Are there any things I should consider changing.

2LEM1

iTrader: (1)

The port job on the ITR head is mild at best. You'll see far greater gains from aftermarket port work. Also, the ITR valvetrain isn't great. It's better than the B16, but you really can't run anything bigger than an ITR cam.... which is still pretty small.

Realistically you would see greater gains from putting an LS bottom end on there with the B16 pistons. That should net you right around 11:1 compression, and with the 89mm stroke it's make gobs more torque... which is really what you need. That 111 lbft the B16 puts out is a joke.

Do some research on LS/VTECs, I think that would be a far smarter move in your situation.


B16s suck.

Tpunep

I'm staying 1.6,that's for sure.Unless I do a complete type R swap.Also I don't have money to buy top of the line cams.I'm really not looking to make more than 150-160 whp.Considering thats the amout of HP i have on the flywheel now.I don't expect to put a type r head on my b16 and start making 200 whp.So the question is not '' should I do a LS swap'',but should I do the type r head or uprage my b16 one.

2LEM1

iTrader: (1)

Neither because it won't make a difference. You're talking about the difference of 5 hp at most.

Is there a reason you want to stay with the 1.6l and make less HP than most people make torque?

Tpunep

So you are telling me that there's not a single b16 over here that makes power ? 5 hp from a type r head,intake,exhaust and CTR pistons,really....
I'm staying B16,because I',m staying B16.
I didn't ask,should i get a b18.
I just want some opinions on that setup,and what can I change to make it better.
So please can someone give me any tips on THAT setup.I'll say again I'm staying 1.6L,will the type R head with the other mods give me a reasonable amount of power or should I spend the extra money and get cams,springs,retainers and put it in my B16 head.

Freemananana

iTrader: (3)

It will work. You are talking NA which has usually lived by the mindset, "No replacement for displacement." Even in the Honda world it is hard to argue against that.

Go with what you got. It will work. It won't be the best, but it will work.

Tpunep

Where I live I can get a type R head pretty cheap and sell my b16 head for more that half the money I'll pay for the type R one.So basically it will be more than 2 times cheaper to do the type R head rather than upgrading my own.I know that I'll make more power that way,but I can't really afford it.I'm hoping to get around 160 whp whit that setup,I hope it's not such a long shot.

gen2integra2001

install the type r head and get a good tune.
our 89 B16 is making 155hp. so b16 don't suck, there just overlooked on.

JD TUNING

2LEM1

iTrader: (1)

155whp?!?!

Holy ****!!

1991_crxsi

iTrader: (1)

I don't know why this thread is still open. 2LEM1 pretty much summed it up, but I'll go over it again.

Q: "Got my hands on a cheap head from a 96 integra type r B18c,not the GSR.Is this a good upgrade over the stock head?"
A: Not really, probably only worth about 10-15WHP even with the type R cams on that B16 bottom end.

Q:"Which one is better,should i swap on the type r head,or should I invest in some cam's springs retainers.I know that aftermarket would probably be better,but in my case that would be almost 2 times more expensive."
A: It depends on what you want. Quality aftermarket cams, springs, and retainers would be nicer. Since you are "staying B16,because [you're] staying B16." then you really don't care about power that much so I'd say just go with the Typer R head and TypeR cam swap.

Statement: "I'll also be investing in a . . . whale ***** intake".
Response: If you care about performance then avoid this intake. A simple no-name short ram with a velocity stack on it will outperform the whale ***** pretty much all the time. You can get the Blox Velocity Stack and air filter combination if you are worried about getting particles in your engine.

Statement: "I'm not looking for huge power gains.I'll also be investing in a good cheap header with a straight 2.5 pipe with an ebay muffler, a whale ***** intake (the cheap rep). And probably some cheap CTR pistons,stock bore."
Response: With a tune and the ITR head and cams that will help you out. Please consider though, for someone that is "'not looking for huge power gains", you are going to shelling out a lot of cash when it is all said and done. To be sure, you will not get "huge power gains" so I guess that is not a problem for you.


Q: "I want to know,is this a good start?"
A: If your goals are to spend a bunch of money and get little return, then yes you are on the right track.

Q:"Are there any things I should consider changing".
A: Yes. I think that we could be able to help you more if you defined your power goals and budget. "A limited budget" is pretty vague. I know you are hellbent on staying B16, but you also asked if there is anything you should consider changing and the simple answer is, "Yes, you should consider changing your platform".
In a nutshell, you would be better off switching to a B20V or LSV set-up. You could sell your entire B16 and use that to buy your LS or B20 bottom end. Then use that TypeR head you have laying around on that build. It would cost about the same, and you would have much better performance.There are some little things you can do to make these set-ups very reliable, but it will require some research. Also you should consider selling the B16 and TypeR head and going H2B. Probably would't cost you that much more money and it would be a huge performance upgrade over the B16.
Long story short: Consider your goals and plan your build, save your money if you need some more, don't be in a rush, and make it happen. Patience and planning will get you pretty far.

An Additional Note: Since you are "new to tuning engines" I will tell you that whatever route you go, please budget to have the car professionally dyno tuned by a reputable shop. This will be the best $200-$350 you will spend on your build, and should never be overlooked. You can bolt all the crap in the world on your car, but without a good tune, it will be worth peanuts.

dhabell

Finally. some one said it.
Good advice on the post above.
A b20 with the ITR head and everyone you know will be jealous.

Tpunep

Thanks guys,a tune is a must,I will be retuning the car whichever way I go.I thing I got the answers of everything I needed.I'll just have to decide which way to go.Again,thank you.

Tpunep

Sooo,I decided to listen to your advice and got me some cams.Wohooo.And now the next question pops up-what valvetrain should I use.
Supertech http://www.ebay.com/itm/161189629319?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2648&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AITBrian Crower http://www.ebay.com/itm/291187691828?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2648&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AITOr the cheapest option
Zex http://www.ebay.com/itm/390775405797?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2648&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AITI'll also change the LMA's to Skunk2's http://www.ebay.com/itm/261491189523?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2648&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AITMy car will be a daily in which I'll be covering aloooot of miles,I decided to go with the steel retainers,because they offer better millage than titanium ones? I want the cam and valvetrain to last as long as possible,so I don't want to go with too stiff springs too.
I won't be revving past 9000 rpm.
The cams I bought are Edelbrock 4730 from a guy from this forum(thanks xian!),not too mental,but they'll do the job.
So tell me what you guys think.I'll still stay with the 1.6,I know,I know,it sucks...But that's how it's gonna be for now.I'll probably be on the market for some exhaust and intake manifolds,but first lets figure out,what valvetrain should I use.

1991_crxsi

iTrader: (1)

Man, I would hate to see what it looks like when you decide not to take our advice.

Umm... those cams are not going to do much better than the ITR cams... if at all. Maybe you don't have the ITR cams with that head? IDK.. In any event they are only worth about 5-8WHP over stock b16 cams. That plus the valve train you are getting to support them and tuning should be a wonderful waste of money. Yup, you really are great at following advice.

Tpunep

Look guys,I don't know how to say it otherwise.I got a legitimate reason for staying B16.Have you seen me write somewhere that the B16 bottom is better than the b18-20 ?
I don't know why are you are still discussing it...I asked advice on about what should I do with the head.Please stop talking about the bottom end.I don't know if you got it or not,but I don't live in the USA,I live in a small European country,which you probably have never even heard about.And the LS swap here costs us a FORTUNE,not to mention that they are in poor condition.A Nice bottom end like my B16 is almost impossible to find,so THAT is the reason I'm staying B16.I was hoping to avoid that stupid explanation,but here you go forum,now you know why I'm NOT doing the LS swap.So PLEASE guys I need your help on the question I asked you.Bottom end is staying stock,I would only consider a little bump in compression with CTR pistons.All I need you to help me with is the HEAD.
I hope I didn't offend anyone,I'm just trying to get some help,not somebody to tell me what's best for me and my car.
Thank you

1991_crxsi

iTrader: (1)

HAHA. The exact type of "help" you are trying to get is for "somebody to tell you what's best for your car". You asked for suggestions, recommendations, and you even want us to pick out the brand of valve springs for you.
Here is whats up:

You asked for advice.
You got some.
You claimed to take it.
You did not.
Now you want more advice regarding information that could easily be obtained if you spent 30 minutes searching.
I think that is funny.

I understand that you are limited in your options because of your location, so B16 will be the platform here.
I'm sure we still want to help you out. However, we are all still unclear on your goals or budget. I'm not trying to be rude here, but this is what I've got so far from you requests regarding your goals:
Your posts suggest that your goals are to spend a bunch of money on your B16 without getting much of a performance improvement out of it but still retaining the ability to put lots of miles on it. So basically you want to waste money and get almost nothing in return? I'm guessing that is correct because buying those cams and upgrading your valve train are a great start to wasting money. The OEM Honda ITR valve train and cams would have been very reliable and made probably just as much horsepower on your B16. Plus your other posts said you were not that concerned with performance right?
If this is the case then, just run the ITR head and cams with the stock springs and retainers (if you have the ITR cams) and get rid of those aftermarket cams. That is good advice regarding what to do with your head. You will get a noticeable increase (nothing crazy because its a NA B16, but it will be something appreciable) and it will be reliable, and will save you money since you won't need to do anything to the head at all. I know you will not get to waste a bunch of money on parts you don't need, but in the long run you will appreciate saving money.
Now there is the issue of budget... which I am clueless about.

2LEM1

iTrader: (1)

Don't run Brian Crower anything.

Tpunep

I don't have a type r head,the question is,should I get the head or should I upgrade my existing b16 head.I decided to upgrade my B16 head.What do you guys think,about the zex valvetrain? Or should I just spend a little extra and get supertech?What's wrong with Brian Crower? I've seen some people who are quite happy of their products.

UncleD

iTrader: (2)

DO the Supertechs. Valvetrain is a crucial component to your engine and should never be skimped out on.

2LEM1

iTrader: (1)

^ This

Brian Crower is all taiwanese made bullshit.

2LEM1

iTrader: (1)

Ferrea > Supertech

Just sayin'

Tpunep

Ferrea is way too expensive,I guess I'll go with the supertech springs and steel retainers.

1991_crxsi

iTrader: (1)

I have run Supertech in 2 heads... worked great for me. And yes, Ferrea > Supertech, but they are more expensive. Supertechs should do fine for you, but my next build will be Ferrea.

Hey guys, isn't there an OEM chrome moly vanadium steel retainer that world with aftermarket springs in a B series? I'm thinking its the 2002-2004 RSX Type S K-Series (flat type, not the dished ones). Part number: 14765-PRB-A00 right? Is this a good option for the OP?

Also, if the Titanium retainers and springs are precision matched and properly installed then they generally have good longevity correct?

UncleD

iTrader: (2)

Yes.

Tpunep

Awesome,supertech it is.And for the retainers? Supertech steel retainers or?