swpdb16

I have a type r transmission on a b16 and today i noticed when i was driving in reverse and i pressed the clutch in, it felt like the car was braking somehow. I checked like 5 times and it did this all the time, whether it was a flat surface or a slope. It only happens like at a really slow crawl. It doesnt do this when i have the clutch out and backing up just when i press it back in. Anyone have any idea of what this could be? Has this happened to anyone else with a type r transmission?
Thanks Has about 45,000 miles

swpdb16

ttt

Stinkycheezmonky

Hey, same exact thing just happened with mine, I'm having it checked out by a guy here. Did you do anything to yours to screw it up, or was it just locking all of a sudden? Mine was completely spontaneous.

swpdb16

God damn all of a sudden i get in the car and its doing this retarded **** i have no idea!!! How many miles on your tranny i hope its nothing serious if it is **** FI goin back to all motor

Stinkycheezmonky

27,000 miles on mine, bone stock engine, ACT HD clutch.

Stinkycheezmonky

Alright, so this is what's up right now. Apparently, the ACT clutch is too strong for my stock engine, and that's puttin' a hurting on everything, so that has to come out (anyone want it, only like 2000 miles on it?), and now they're (Ben and co.) checking the engine for damage...Fuuuuuuuuuuuuudge...
swpd, what clutch are you running?

Stinkycheezmonky

Ok, here's what happened. Because the ACT clutch is so strong, when engaging/disengaging, it pulls so hard on the crankshaft, that after awhile, these metal thingies (I can't remember their name) get squished again and again, and eventually fail and shred thousands of little bitty metal shavings all into the oil pan, which is then picked up by the oil pickup and sent through the whole engine. When those thingies fail, the crank can move from side to side, causing more problems. In addition, all the little metal shavings get in the bearings and mess those up. So now that all my bearings are shot, they need to be replaced, though luckily my crankshaft isn't too messed up.
As far as the transmission is concerned, a similar thing, although the stress was apparently placed on the bearings, synchros, and shift forks, all of which are messed up with mine. So now that needs to be rebuilt as well.
What all of this comes down to is that the ACT HD clutch is just too damn strong for a stock engine/transmission. With that said, anyone with a TRACK-ONLY CAR interested in my ACT setup, let me know. Only like 2000 miles on it, I loved it before it cost me $2200. Again, TRACK-ONLY people, or at least cars with a strengthened bottom end, and I mean strengthened.
I have to give a huge to Ben Schaeffer, awesome guy and a huge help.

Reid

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sscguy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Ok, here's what happened. Because the ACT clutch is so strong, when engaging/disengaging, it pulls so hard on the crankshaft, that after awhile, these metal thingies (I can't remember their name) get squished again and again, and eventually fail and shred thousands of little bitty metal shavings all into the oil pan, which is then picked up by the oil pickup and sent through the whole engine. When those thingies fail, the crank can move from side to side, causing more problems. In addition, all the little metal shavings get in the bearings and mess those up. So now that all my bearings are shot, they need to be replaced, though luckily my crankshaft isn't too messed up.
As far as the transmission is concerned, a similar thing, although the stress was apparently placed on the bearings, synchros, and shift forks, all of which are messed up with mine. So now that needs to be rebuilt as well.
What all of this comes down to is that the ACT HD clutch is just too damn strong for a stock engine/transmission. With that said, anyone with a TRACK-ONLY CAR interested in my ACT setup, let me know. Only like 2000 miles on it, I loved it before it cost me $2200. Again, TRACK-ONLY people, or at least cars with a strengthened bottom end, and I mean strengthened.
I have to give a huge to Ben Schaeffer, awesome guy and a huge help. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Get a second opinion on what ails your car.

AssPenny

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Reid &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Get a second opinion on what ails your car.</TD></TR></TABLE>No ****... Load/stress on the shift forks?!?!?! hahaha... Man some one is feeding you a line.

.RJ

what reid said.

that sounds like a load of horseshit that a clutch like that will waste your thrust bearings in 2000 miles. maybe if you have a full race 2 puck unobtanium 4-disc 9 bazillion lb clamping force cadmium coated pressure plate while drag racing your 900hp turdblowed honda on slicks.

then maybe.

Stinkycheezmonky

I also thought it was weird, but I know Ben's a good guy and knows his ****, and when he showed me the opened-up tranny and all, it was hard to not believe. Apparently this has happened to a number of other cars as well, which is just more backup for it. I bought the car used, so it could've had problems previously that I was unaware of which would've contributed to this, but I don't drive it that hard, and I don't abuse the clutch/tranny with powershifting or sidestepping or anything, so something had to be responsible for the messed up parts. I saw the messed up parts, including the bent shift forks, so I know he's not full of ****. Considering the car seemed fine before I swapped the clutch, and afterwards I started facing problems, it just seems likely that that's the cause.

Reid

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sscguy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I also thought it was weird, but I know Ben's a good guy and knows his ****, and when he showed me the opened-up tranny and all, it was hard to not believe. Apparently this has happened to a number of other cars as well, which is just more backup for it. I bought the car used, so it could've had problems previously that I was unaware of which would've contributed to this, but I don't drive it that hard, and I don't abuse the clutch/tranny with powershifting or sidestepping or anything, so something had to be responsible for the messed up parts. I saw the messed up parts, including the bent shift forks, so I know he's not full of ****. Considering the car seemed fine before I swapped the clutch, and afterwards I started facing problems, it just seems likely that that's the cause.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Please take pictures of said parts and post them up.

.RJ

the parts were already bad when you put the clutch in then

Stinkycheezmonky

When I get everything back I'll take pics, should be sometime next week. For the shift forks, it's bent a few mm, so it most likely won't be visible in pictures. The engine bearings are visibly scored, and the transmission bearings move real freely, though taking pics of them wouldn't indicate much.

Whether or not the parts were bad previously on mine, why has this particular setup caused failures in other stock engines then? It seems unlikely that they all had prior damage.

swpdb16

Holy **** im gonna start crying! This cant be possible that there is so much damage, i too have a act cluctch and i just took off the oil pan, clean as a whistle no shavings no problems, im leaning towards an change of oil in the trans but thats just a start to what it may really be, im getting mine checked out Thanks for the suggestions though, anyone else?

mstewar

is this ACT beefier than the Street/Strip setup Smitdog has? His seems fine and is probably what I'm going to replace my POS exedy with next month..

In the past, Ben has done A LOT of work for me and I trust him.. he does know his stuff.. it seems really odd that this clutch would've caused this much damage in such a short amount of time though..

Stinkycheezmonky

I agree again that it's odd. It could be that I got a heavier duty pressure plate or something, though I thought I was getting the most basic one offered. Ben said it was rated at 2600lbs, I'm not sure what the stock clutch's rating is. I guess it could've been a combination of the guy before me screwing things up and maybe the track time at the Expo? Although even there I wasn't misshifting or anything, I was just pushing the engine a little harder than usual...

.RJ

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by swpdb16 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Holy **** im gonna start crying! This cant be possible that there is so much damage, i too have a act cluctch and i just took off the oil pan, clean as a whistle no shavings no problems, im leaning towards an change of oil in the trans but thats just a start to what it may really be, im getting mine checked out Thanks for the suggestions though, anyone else?</TD></TR></TABLE>

The parts were already bad. There is no way this is a clutch induced failure although the heavier pressure plate may have made the symptoms more apparent.

The parts were busted before the clutch went in, there's no way around that.

Stinkycheezmonky

Well ****. I figured the goober owner before me was a jacknob with what he'd done to the car (shitty JDM front end, didn't weld the radiator support, fiberglass fenders and bumper, replaced the valve cover and shift **** with JDM GSR parts...why, I have no idea).

.RJ

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sscguy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Well ****. I figured the goober owner before me was a jacknob with what he'd done to the car (shitty JDM front end, didn't weld the radiator support, fiberglass fenders and bumper, replaced the valve cover and shift **** with JDM GSR parts...why, I have no idea).</TD></TR></TABLE>

Eeek...... i would have run far, far away from that car. I've seen plenty like that and they are always junk, both inside and out.

RJ

JPP

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sscguy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The engine bearings are visibly scored, and the transmission bearings move real freely, though taking pics of them wouldn't indicate much.

.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I really don't see how the higher force needed to disengage the ATC clutch could have damage the transmission bearing. The input shaft of the transmission is splined along with the bore of the clutch friction disc and they are aloud to "slide" one in respect to the other. There is no axial force transmitted from the clutch to the input shaft of the transmission.

As for the crankshaft bearings, there is an axial force transmitted to the crankshaft by the action of <U>disengaging </U> the clutch (when the through out bearing pushes agains the pressure plates, it also pushes against the flywheel thus the crankshaft) but I really doubt the differential force compared to the stock clutch and the minute time needed to shift gear and reengage the clutch is enought to have created the damage in such a short time.

Just my opinion

Reid

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sscguy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">replaced the valve cover and shift **** with JDM GSR parts...why, I have no idea).</TD></TR></TABLE>

He either took those as a trade when selling the items to a friend or swapped them out with the intent to keep them for his next car.

Stinkycheezmonky

I would've stayed away from the car, but it was otherwise in great shape, and was way cheap enough ($15,500). As for everything you said JPP, I'm going on my mechanic's word, I definitely don't know enough about the workings of a transmission to be able to say anything. From what others here have said (thanks for the help RJ and Reid, I appreciate it) it seems to make sense that the parts were previously damaged, and the ACT went that last step and punched all those parts in the nuts, effectively making them worthless. Since many others have said they're running the same setup with no problems, I'm not blaming ACT, though maybe as a safety, be cautious in using one if your engine and transmission are not in tip-top shape.
Again though, this is all my opinion, and I certainly am not the most knowledgeable person on the subject.

.RJ

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JPP &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I really don't see how the higher force needed to disengage the ATC clutch could have damage the transmission bearing. The input shaft of the transmission is splined along with the bore of the clutch friction disc and they are aloud to "slide" one in respect to the other. There is no axial force transmitted from the clutch to the input shaft of the transmission.

As for the crankshaft bearings, there is an axial force transmitted to the crankshaft by the action of <U>disengaging </U> the clutch (when the through out bearing pushes agains the pressure plates, it also pushes against the flywheel thus the crankshaft) but I really doubt the differential force compared to the stock clutch and the minute time needed to shift gear and reengage the clutch is enought to have created the damage in such a short time.

Just my opinion</TD></TR></TABLE>

One more time. Parts had to have been severly busted before the clutch install.

The higher pressure plate on the clutch just made some of the symptoms apparent. The rest apparent when the motor was torn down.

How many times do i have to say that.......

JPP

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

One more time. Parts had to have been severly busted before the clutch install.

The higher pressure plate on the clutch just made some of the symptoms apparent. The rest apparent when the motor was torn down.

How many times do i have to say that....... </TD></TR></TABLE>


???

Why are you upset?
What I wrote corroborates what you are saying.

BTW it's not the size of your title that count it's what you do with it