Maxi

I'm running B's and my idle is pegged solidly at 800rpm. The car has had a ton of dyno tuning, so I don't know where the notion of a tuned car can't idle smoothly with Spec B's is coming from.

Rob :190:

ok, are some of you Spec B guys gonna be at Deals Gap? Cause i want a little experience with them......

alexboy

Black R the reason i chose those cams is because those are the two i am debating on buying most of the board runs the todas over jun's but i have heard the the juns can produce equal power with less tuning and better idle correct me if i am wrong isnt the vtec crossover on the spec b's and jun3 around the same rpm


[Modified by alexboy, 3:34 PM 9/27/2001]

Ross

Dean,

how's that punctuation treating you?

GoTrIcE

i dont know about u guys..but some of the R owners said the jun 3rd stage is da way to go.

Black R

B's or type 3's?

Well, I went through the same debate when I made my decision and here's what helped me decide:

1. The Jun kit comes with cams, cam gears, valve springs, Ti retainers, and Jun ECU. The $ for the ECU is a lot. Also, some other cons for the JUN kit is that I knew of a guy in TN who had blown 3 motors using the full type 3 kit... And their cams could only go a couple of degrees before valve to piston contact. (From what I remember).

2. Toda B's: Seemed more reliable to me. Lip and sgT from this board were among the few running them and then later C's with very good results and a very high level of reliability. They don't need a full ecu - just a vafc, as well as the cams, cam gears, valve spring kit, and some Ti retainers. The spec b's also will have no problems with the toda gen 2 cam gears - even if you forget to tighten enough and they slip to the max, they won't damage anything...

I ended up getting a very good deal on all the toda products from racer-x on this board as well. Jack (b18cxR) is somewhat near me and has had lots of experience with them as well... He helped with the install and initial tune on them, and has done several others since that time. He swears by them.

alexboy, I guess the stories you heard are true, but only partially: the Jun cams require less tuning because you are using their ECU! Also, they can be advanced a couple of degrees before valve to piston contact so there is less cam adjusting to do. As far as the vtec crossover - it's different for every car... even with the exact same setup. I'd say the ball park for the type 3's and spec b's for crossover is prolly between ~6-7k so that's kind of a yes.

hth

i 4

It shouldnt be that hard to get into the 13's on a R , im sure you can get it there bone stock if you guted it. I ran a 14.30 on my 97 w/ one person in the car ,and i have Injen Cold air intake, CM Clutch , reprogramed ECU and falken Azenis.

B18C5-EH2

I've got a 1998 B18C5 in my '92 Civic hatch, and I want cams too.

SHOW ME SOME REAL DYNOS!

I've seen the JUN 3's out-power the Toda B's and C's on one site, then I see the Spec B's put out the SAME as the Type 3's elsewhere...what's the TRUTH?

Spec B Todas do NOT require the expensive valvetrain as mentioned...

Use the stock TypeR outer valvesprings from the intake side all the way around and the Portflow stiff inner springs and you can run just fine.

This set-up has been shown to take 12mm of lift! And take 9500RPM!

The absolute best in terms of RPM and lift are the Ferrea combo -- 11,500RPM!!

But the frictional loss will suck...

I'm still trying to take all of this in. Deep down I want the Spec B's, but nobody I've talked to has put down SERIOUS power with them.

I talked to someone with the JUN 3's and he says that the VTEC cross is shitty because of a 500RPM DEADSPOT that is very difficult to tune around/out.

Mike K and Kenji both run the Spec A's and are happy with them, and these guys know a lot about this ****, but they ARE in Florida -- this could be a variable that has an adverse effect on the bigger cams.

My problem is this:

If I spend an ***-load of money on some cams, they'd better be big and give me a LOT more power than stock.

No offense guys, but the Spec A's cost the same as the B's and the max power output potential isn't the same, you know?

What did Kenji max out at with his Spec A's? I thought he told me 194whp...

If that's true, then the Spec A's are the ****, because I haven't seen any B's make over 180 here in the Atlanta area...and if the A's really do have a more linear power delivery, then they would be the obvious choice over the Spec B's, right?

Any help?


[Modified by B18C5-EG6, 10:43 PM 10/4/2001]

B18C5-EH2

....up

MPH

I should have A's in about a week and I will post the Dyno.

Black R

.....talk to Jack (b18cxr) on this board and you might be more inclined to go with B's over A's.

Remember, A's have almost the same peak whp as B's but their midrange is a lot less.

As for dyno's, I'll be happy to email you a few of people's with spec B's...

And if you're referring to my car, remember that it is basically untuned.

Black R

I'm guessing you got this info from importreview.com? I'm not sure I would trust that combo... I'm sure it'll work, but for how long?

All of the NC guys have decent B setups and all are running 185whp+... Jack and Chris both have 195+ with spec B setups and the dyno's are on this board. Do a search for threads made by RStoR and B18CXr and you'll find them.

But if you really want some OH **** power increases, then maybe allmotor isn't for you. It can be a decent upgrade in power, and reliable if done and tuned right, but if you want 11's or lower, then you might be better off with boost.

B18C5-EH2

Black R -- please do not take my "none of the locals have made over 185whp" remark as a rip on your car directly. All i'm saying is that in the Atlanta area it's hard to find people who can tune the B's up to and beyond 180whp, you know?

I'm not looking for 11's...I'd be happy with 13's.

And for those of you who are going to tell me that a Civic with an R swap should run in the 13's, then remember that I have a 2300lb. Si Hatch and that I live in Georgia -- shitty drag-racing climate.

Although i haven't run it since the B18C5 swap, I don't anticipate running better than a 14.1. I have full interior and street tires.

Im interested to see how some cars around Atlanta will do with the b's AFTER tuning...

B18C5-EH2

Oh and as for the valvetrain?

I didn't get that from importreview.com -- I spoke with Tom from portflow and he assured me that numerous people have been running the "portflow" set-up for a good while now without any problems.

Believe me, I'm not trying to be CHEAP when it comes to my motor, but if I don't need to spend $300.00+ on valvesprings, then i'm not going to.

Anybody else hear of the "portflow" set-up? ITR intake outers all around with portflow inners...

importreview.com pushes the JUN **** anyways...vlavetrain included I'm sure.

Black R

no biggie.

Tom @ Portflow is a good guy and very helpful. I'm running his Ti retainers after all... (I'm not sure toda makes b-series retainers.)

I know nobody in ATL area has a nice tuned B setup... I'm rushing to be the first. But I wanted to make sure I had oem reliability, and I felt it was better to be safe than sorry so I went with the full toda package. I guess I'm the toda poster child! lol Well, if I get a fightex suspension, and itb's then I will be.

But seriously, take a trip up to NC with us when we go to Deals Gap II and talk a little with Jack (B18CXr). You'll also have a chance to ride in several toda b cars as well then.

I'm sure that'll help you make up your mind - it certainly did for me. Good thing I had already placed my order too...

Cosworth

Ken's car walks me in the mid-range at freeway speeds. (55-100mph). We tested his car against my completely stock one. In the VTEC range, it didn't seems very noticeable, but espeically 5th gear pull from 3500-up, he put good 2-3 car lenghts on me.

Black R

lol,

I will admit that when I first got the whole spec-b package installed I was very disappointed. I had previously dyno'd at 166whp with only an aem cai. Then with the spec b's, gen2 cam gears, toda valve springs, portflow Ti retainers, and vafc with jack's safe settings I dyno'd at 164 whp! The stiffer springs definitely ate up ~2whp in friction... That and the fact that my entire *stock* exhaust system was too restrictive for the cams was responsible for the loss. After installing the toda header, and changing nothing else my whp jumped up to 175. That's all I have done so far. I now have bolted up the stock exhaust with a test pipe, and I feel like I have lost a little...

Sean and I did some highway runs to compare as well. Nothing like a little real world tuning. Thanks again Sean! We'll have to do it with TJ to get my settings dialed in.

Anyway, to get back on track and answer the original topic of this thread:

Anthony, imho you are very close:

I think spec a's or b's (with toda valvetrain), cam gears, and vafc will get you into the 13's without any problems.

I personally don't know anything about Crower, and I wouldn't use their stuff in my b18c5, but it's your car. Endyne pistons ~12:5 sound good, but save your money on the rods. VAFC sounds good and you'll need it to tune, but of course you'll get more out of a power FC or hondata stage 3... The rest of the $ in tuning and you are mid-low 13's...

As a matter of fact, you could prolly get high 13's by simply bolting on a hytech header/ exhaust combo, vafc, cam gears, and tune! I know vagoITR on this board made 185whp with this setup.

Phoenix R

ok guys, i figured out what's goin on for the ride......I talked to Dan of Godspeed for a while and here's what we figured out:

Toda Spec C Camshafts
Toda Valve Springs
Toda Cam Pullies
Titanium Retainers
440cc Toyota injectors
JDM Final Drive With GSR 5th gear
Hondata Stage 4
Toda Forged High Compression Piston kit (for next summer)
9500 RPM Redline................

ImportReview

I have to comment after reading that list.

If I thought about it for a week, I am not sure I could have listed a more expensive setup than that.

Toda is a TON of money. That list is about $4500 or so I would say.

You can hit 13's with just Type-R cams. Stock Type-R's with 13" slicks are in low 14's all the time.

Spec C's are probably, as far as I know, the worst choice for the street possible. Even Toda will tell you they are for racing only. But heck...you can do whatever you want. I have run them on the street. Pretty rough in low RPM's.

Instead of wasting a ton of money on cams, stay with Type-R cams..and spend that $1100 from the C's on a Hi-Tech header. A way way better investment. And it will offer great Hp gains. In fact...the Header might make more power than your Spec C's for the money!

Hope I helped.

Jeff

Black R

umm... Well, I'd scrap the toyota injectors for one. Just get a drop-in set of 450cc injectors from RC. JDM FD sounds nice, but ATS 4.9x is also a good option.

Toda pistons? Well those are nice forged pistons, but you could prolly find forged pistons for less $ from endyne or wiseco or JG... It's your $ though...

For a setup with the C's you'll also need to upgrade your fuel system: higher volume fuel pump, fuel pressure regulator/ riser, and gauge...

For the $ spent, there are better ways to get into the 13's: some mild cams like spoon, spec a, spec b, jun type 2, vafc or fields or shogun unit for tuning fuel, slicks, and hytech header. jdm or ats final drive and you're knee deep in the 13's...

But it's your $.

I'm surprised we haven't heard from sgT and Lip on this subject - but be warned, their opinions may not be so tactful as mine and Jeff's (importreview)...


[Modified by Black R, 11:46 PM 10/13/2001]