carlossolorzano

wat would be better and stronger a b16a2 with gsr head or ls/vtec?

JdmTypeRdc2

iTrader: (1)

"better" for what exactly?????

They both have their pros and cons...

carlossolorzano

speed?
long lasting?
daily drive?

el crapitan

just out of curiosity, why would you want to put a gsr head on a b16 block? i mean, why not just keep the pr3 head on there? the p72 flow better?

carlossolorzano

is cause i have both blocks but i have a gsr head,,, i just dont know wat to put it on... b16 and gsr head = poor man type R

NinJa_FLiP

i always thought the gsr block with a b16 head is the poor man's type r?? anyway.. what are your plans for the build and how do u plan to use it? street/track/etc...

el crapitan

b16 block and gsr head does not = poor mans type r.
poor mans type r is ls block, p30 pistons and pr3 head...i think
which is basically what you can assemble with what you have now. only you'd be using the p72 head instead. if the b16 block is of an obd1 vehicle, i'd use those pistons in the ls block with the ls rods. use the b16 oil pump as well.
that's what i'd do anyways

Rooftop voter

iTrader: (1)

I'd try to sell the gsr head and buy a b16 head for your car. That's the easier way. Ls/vtec is great if your gonna build the bottom end.

JdmTypeRdc2

iTrader: (1)

The reason for opting for the GSR head instead of the pr3 is for compression. The combustion chambers of the p72 head are much smaller, therefore, giving a slight bump in compression compared to a b16.

It already has been proven that a p72 and pr3 heads flow about the same, no major differences between them until they are worked on (ported, oversized etc).

The reason why the p72 head is sometimes preferred is due to the smaller combustion chambers that if offers in order to increase the compression a tad bit.

JdmTypeRdc2

iTrader: (1)

Youre both wrong.

B18c1 block with b16 head is considered a poor mans type R swap. The GSR and ITR share pretty much the same block, and the ITR and b16 heads are identical besides the factory port and polish/cams. This is why the swap is popular. Both items can be had for pretty cheap.

el crapitan

yea, wasn't too sure on that. but then figured a b18c bottom end wasn't really a "poor" man's block

Bseriescivic5

GSR and ITR use IDENTICAL blocks. Only difference is the crank, pistons, and head obviously. B16a head and ITR head are IDENTICAL castings. and as stated the differences are in the valve train (cams, springs) and a very light port and polish from the factory). If it were me, I would opt to go with the b16a block and GSR head, although the GSR head sucks cuz the intake manifold. Get a skunk2 or victor x and your set. Otherwise I would try and trade for a b16 head.

JdmTypeRdc2

iTrader: (1)

Exactly

The GSR manifold is a horrible design unless the head will be kept stock. The skunk2 Pro series manifold really makes it shine (even more so with bigger cams/tuned ECU etc)

JdmTypeRdc2

iTrader: (1)

"Poor mans block" meaning it is still a vtec block, with oil squirters and such, but youre not paying for the "ITR" name. The only difference between the 2 is the pistons, as "ITR" motors use p72 rods as well as the b18c1. The pistons give the bump in compression to 10.6:1 as opposed to 10.0:1

The purpose is to buy a GSR block, which is pretty cheap to come by. I sold mine, complete with oil pan as well for $350 with 50k miles on it. There are constant deals going around on great parts, so it would benefit someone to pick up lets say:

GSR block: $350
pr3 head: $300-400 depending on condition.

Thats only $750 tops for the whole longblock. Then you will just need miscellaneous parts in order to complete it (timing belt/tensioner/oil pump/etc)

Even if you drop about $1500 in total, it still beats the price of a stock JDM ITR motor of $4500.

To the OP, seems like your best bet.

Bseriescivic5

Hell, im selling an ITR block right now. Needs work, but who doesnt build a block once its apart...

carlossolorzano

i got the skunk2 manifold,golden eagle vtec line,h23 troudel body... but im just so undesided on wat to go with ether b16a2 or my ls block? wat would be faster?

JdmTypeRdc2

iTrader: (1)

more torque would come out of the 1.8L LS block.

One is 1.6 and one a 1.8, its pretty obvious. Torque in the LS comes in much quicker than the Vtec blocks. Depends on what youre building it for.

The LS block internals cant hold RPMs as good as the Vtec counterpart though, so thats another factor you have to take into account.

Just because you have high revving VTEC head doesnt mean the LS block can keep up, and in most cases, it doesnt. I would recommend a GSR block, its the best bang for the buck. Unless youre trying to build it, then were talking about a different ball game.

Bond

The only advantage from the LS is the stroke. It's well known fact it has the longest stroke of the Bseries, which results in more TQ.

When built right LS/V are a great motor with the best of both worlds.

I would never recommend a "stock internals" LS/V. Thats suicide lol.

dannyem1

i had a poor mans r in a eg hatch(gsr block/b16 head)

and my friend had a ls/vtec eg coupe.. we never raced but they both felt hella fast.. youd probably be happier with the poor man's r... i love the way they sound i might even do it again in my da shell

carlossolorzano

my friend has a ls block non buil with gsr head... raving it to 9000rmp his been having it for about 9months... he took on a poor man type r by 3 cars...

JdmTypeRdc2

iTrader: (1)

How much longer can that weak LS block take those 9k revs? is the real question.

If its done half assed, then it will run half assed. Thats just the way it is. Im actually surprised he has not blown anything yet. In other words, he will eventually blow it.

Dont go by what your friends have, but instead, build it for your taste and reliability.

Your friend is the type of driver that give the LSVtec the "bad" and "unreliable" name that it has gotten over the years. People just slap stuff on, and expect it to last forever. Living in a realistic world, nothing is bulletproof, and we all know it cant happen. A slight build will at least get it run correct and reliable for quite a long time compared to parts just being slapped together, with whatever miles and wear/tear on them...

Eh, its your choice. Im trying to watch out for your time and wallet, and doing you a favor by helping you with some valuable information that your friend seemed to skip over and turned his back to.

Mattb16teg

Yup! Agreed! Never had a problem with my Ls Vtec setups over the last 6 years because I build them right and know how high is too high!!

turboskratch

3 car lengths doesn't mean anything if you're just comparing motors.. one car could be lighter, the driving conditions for each person could have changed, etc..

I would not make a major decision on building an engine based on a street race.

Start being intelligent about it and learn about these things because you want to do everything right THE FIRST TIME. LS/VTEC builds can be reliable, if you learn how it's done right. You are inquiring about a level of honda tuning that's MUCH more than just bolting on/slapping on parts together and yielding instant power. Didn't you know that often times when you piece together a motor, when you get a baseline dyno, chances are you're only about 2/3 of its potential power? I've seen B20VTEC builds that baselined at 160whp before reaching 210+whp after a days worth of tuning. Has those things ever occured to you?

In these economical times, the last thing you want to do is to waste away those hard earned dollars on blown motors just because you're hasty and want to go fast like your friends. Do it smart and do it right, so that while all your friends are blowing up engines, you're still running yours strong.