heyimrchills

i was wondering from honda tech people how much is the right price to pay for changing front brakes.

-and what exactly would be changed?
-is it that important also to change the rear brakes? FWD? iono

TunerN00b

Generally, a "brake job" only consists of new brake pads. Frequently, the new pads (brand depending) will include new anti-squeal backing plates/shims, or the previous ones are reused, and the mechanic should use a proper anti-squeal compound between the pad and plate.

It is important to change the brake pads when the pad material has worn down, at both ends. Usually, a front heavy FWD car will go through 2 to 3 front pads before needing to replace the rears, depending on driving style and pad compound.

Since only removing the wheel and taking out a single nut is needed to change brakes on an Integra (though it is a good idea to lube up the slider pins as well), I have no clue on what a mechanic would charge. I'd feel like a fool to pay for what only takes 15 minutes of my time (for both fronts, add another 15 min to do the rears as well).

nsxtasy

Good advice from TunerN00b.

There's no relationship between the need for a front brake pad replacement and a rear brake pad replacement. You replace each one when the pads are worn down - typically when the pad material is around 2 mm thick. At about that point, there is a metal tab that comes into contact with the rotors, and makes the brakes squeak, as a warning that it's time to replace the pads. (When the pads are new, the pad material is around 11 mm thick on the front pads, 9 mm on the rear pads.)

On some of our cars, you can see the edge of the brake pad through the spokes in the wheel, and you can get an idea of how thick the brake pad material is, without having to remove the wheel/tire. All you have to do is look at it (although a flashlight often helps). It isn't as thorough as checking the entire length of both pads, but if you see that the pad material on the edge is around 2 mm thick, you know they need changing. You can ask your mechanic or a mechanically-knowledgeable friend to show you how to do this. Or follow the instructions here.

I've paid anywhere from zero to an hour of labor for changing the brake pads on one end of my car. Typical labor rates today are $75-125 per hour. Plus the cost of the pads, of course.

Dcteg94

It all depends on how the brakes have worn over time, if the pads are worn to the audible squealers then they obviously need replaced. The rotor should also be inspected for glazeing, pitting or most commonly a rust ridge around the outside. At this point you may want to concider haveing your rotors turned if you do not want to spend the money to have them replaced (roughly $8-$10 per rotor to have them turned). While all the components are apart you should take out the calliper slides and regrease them to make sure they are not seized and to keep from seizeing. If you find that the pads are still usable i would suggest takeing a peice of sandpaper and sand the pad just a little bit so you have a clean surface. As far as the price for haveing someone change your brake pads only im not sure, you may end up paying a flat rate of $50-$80 + cost of pads. If you or a freind replaced them you would only end up paying for the cost of the pads (roughly $15-$35 per set depending the the brand). Usualy a brake job is not all that labor intensive but it depends on the conditions the car has been under. Being in collage strictly for automotives i have seen it meny diffrent ways (seized slides, metal on metal, ect...).

GagnarTheUnruly

iTrader: (3)

Yeah, a brake job is actually a good way to get comfortable with doing your own car work.

TunerN00b

Fixed. I wouldn't let a friend who had no experience working on cars start off with something such as brakes without at least being there. Brakes are too important to risk messing up.

Besides, try explaining how to retract the piston (something I forgot to mention in my previous post) using a C clamp (or a large screwdriver for those you have to spin back in) to someone with no experience, and you'll understand why its good to be there as a reference.

GagnarTheUnruly

iTrader: (3)

Yeah, that's a good point. I'm completely self-taught but I have probably been coasting on strong spatial skills and a lot of luck (/blind ignorance?).

heyimrchills

thanks guys so a brake job can be done by an experienced friend whose done brakes?! oh man thanks guy i learned something ahaa.

i went to this performance shop and they charged me to change the rotars and calipers for the front brakes plus labor = 380 plus tax!? almost got jipped.

GagnarTheUnruly

iTrader: (3)

Yeah, it's a pretty easy job for an experienced person. Under an hour for both front wheels, in a driveway.

The only thing to look out for is that your discs have probably been bolted on with screws that require a Phillips head driver (!) to remove. It is almost/actually impossible to remove these if they have seized, as screwdrivers don't grab quite as well as socket wrenches. In that case, they have to be drilled out. The screw material is very soft relative to the rotor, so it's easy to do. You just drill the head out a bit and when you drill through the head most of the way the head will shear off, releasing the disc. No need to actually drill through the bolt -- you're just trying to break the head of the bolt.

Once that's done to both bolts you can just tap the disc off or unscrew it by threading a bolt through one of the holes that's pre-cut (the bolt threads through the disc and presses against the hub, pressing the disc off). The sad little nub from the bolt you massacred will be sticking out of the hub. Grab it with locking pliers and unscrew it (now it's easy to unscrew, go figure). No need to replace the shot screw on the replacement disc, it's only there to keep the rotor on during initial vehicle assembly (makes it slightly easier to install calipers).

Having to do this will add some extra time. It's not hard, but you or your friend can't be scared to do a little drilling. Honestly, it's a good way to build courage about drilling out bolts. Anyone who's done a disc brake job on any car can do it.

And remember: if you aren't keeping the rotor it doesn't matter what happens to it.

ILS_09

I'll say just have someone you know who has changed brake pads before do it for you while you watch and learn.It's not that hard.I'm pretty sure if you see it done one time you'll know how to do it yourself.I would also follow tunernoob suggestion.

nsxtasy

If they changed the calipers, that's not a bad price. Normally, there's no need to replace calipers. They can also be rebuilt, if the piston seals (rubber parts) are melted or become crunchy; rebuilding saves money on parts, although the labor becomes higher.

Before you resort to drilling, they can usually be removed with a tool called an impact driver, which is a special kind of screwdriver you hit with a hammer.

However, you usually don't need to change rotors all that often. Most of the time, you just need to replace the pads.

nsxtasy

Incidentally, if you do this yourself, you will want to buy the following tools:

- hydraulic jack
- torque wrench (for the lug nuts, 80 ft-lbs)
- 19 mm deep socket (for the lug nuts)
- socket wrench (or set of socket wrenches) with metric sockets (12 mm) for the caliper bolts
- C clamp, pipe wrench, or special tool, to push in the pistons
- special "cube" tool to turn the pistons when doing the rear brakes
- impact driver, to remove the set screws in the rotors
- compound ("goop") to spread on the back of the brake pads to avoid squealing

You don't need jackstands to do brakes, because you aren't under the car, but if you're going to do other work on the car, you'll want to get a set. You'll also want to buy a service manual for your car, which you can do here.

GagnarTheUnruly

iTrader: (3)

Thanks for correcting that. I realized last night that I forgot to say that but forgot to add it in.

Oh and about the 'cube' tool for the rear pistons: I have a special hate-hate relationship with those things. I don't know what's wrong with me but I just can't get them to work. What I find works really well for me is to turn a chisel on its side and turn the pison with the chisel. I don't know if that's a no-no, but it's the only way I've found to make turning those things easy.

heyimrchills

thanks guys so i just have to change the pads that are in the rotors right? i read some info on brakes yesterday.. says pads are in the rotors and calipers not sure what they do..thats why i gotta ask people on ht aha.

GagnarTheUnruly

iTrader: (3)

Here's a diagram I made 'cause it's better than working:



The axle and hub spin the rotor inside the wheel. The caliper is bolted to a part of the hub that doesn't spin. So the rotor is spinning when the car moves and the caliper isn't. Inside the caliper are the piston and the pads. When the brake fluid pressurizes (because you hit the brakes), the piston pushes the pads against the rotor. The caliper keeps the pads lined up, and also works in such a way that the two pads apply more or less equal pressure. When the brake fluid de-pressurizes, energy from the spinning wheel pushes the pads apart, so they are just off of the rotor surface.

Eventually the pads and eventually eventually the rotors wear, and have to be replaced. You can tell based on how thick the pads and rotors are whether they need to be replaced (tech speak: are within service limits). Also, the rotor may become corroded, glazed or pitted, which may require resurfacing or replacement. Resurfacing removes material from the rotor to make it smooth again, but if the rotor becomes too thin it's got to go.

During a brake job you swivel the caliper off of the rotor and pull out the pads (easy stuff). You also inspect the rotor and replace/resurface as necessary.

TunerN00b

Only thing wrong with GagnarTheUnruly's diagram, is that the caliper does move on our cars. If it didn't, only 1 brake pad would have force applied to it when braking.

To have a fixed caliper, you need to either have pistons on both sides of the rotor, or make use of a floating rotor (though, this setup usually has more than 1 piston as well).

heyimrchills

okay so i'll re read this because i quite dont understand this what exactly do the calipers do?! so the rotors and brake pads need to be changed and if we have FWD cars whats the point of changing the rear? sorry for asking so much questions lol

nsxtasy

The calipers are a holder. They hold the brake pads in place, next to the rotors.

Inside the calipers, the pistons actually push the brake pads against the rotors when you step on the brakes.

The rotors and brake pads both can be changed. However, the brake pads need to be changed a lot more often than the rotors. Brake pads consist of friction material that wears down as they get used. Rotors are metal disks, and they wear much more slowly. You only need to change the rotors when they get thinner than the minimum thickness spec, and that takes a long time.

All modern cars (FWD, RWD, and 4WD) have brakes for all four wheels. That's needed to keep the car balanced and controllable when it brakes.

Here are some online articles that you might find helpful:

How Disc Brakes Work
How Brake Pads Work
How Brake Rotors Work
How Brake Calipers Work

GagnarTheUnruly

iTrader: (3)

The calipers just hold the brake pads in place over the rotor. And the're designed such that, when the piston presses the inner pad in, the caliper body slides backwards and also presses the outer pad into the rotor (which I did a poor job of illustrating).

Edit: ^^^^ what nxtasy said

heyimrchills

thanks for the advice you guys! i learned alot aha.

Simok

Too much. Most places charge a ton of money to do a brake job. Brakes are really easy to change I say do it yourself, or buy someone lunch who knows how and have them do it lol.