NtegraRacR05

I tried searching and came up empty handed. I'm trying to do some research on the best way to build my LS, I want to run an all motor setup. Any help would be appreciated

UnionCity LS

start off with basic bolt ons, then Cams, and about then you will realize your car is still slow and you will start piecing together your turbo kit due to the fact that you will want more HP and that is somthin an LS motor cant give you NA

Creep

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by UnionCity LS &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">start off with basic bolt ons, then Cams, and about then you will realize your car is still slow and you will start piecing together your turbo kit due to the fact that you will want more HP and that is somthin an LS motor cant give you NA</TD></TR></TABLE>

That is so true. Many have travelled down this road. Tried and tested.

NtegraRacR05

ok dude you're an idiot what you just typed helped me none whatsoever.

RedTegLS

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by NtegraRacR05 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ok dude you're an idiot what you just typed helped me none whatsoever. </TD></TR></TABLE>
No "dude" your the "idiot". Listen to what people on here tell you. Dont be lazy and use the search function, its located in the upper right hand corner of your screen!

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=750584

JDMThoughts

This might be of no use to you too. Non-vtec motors don't go that fast. Really having VTEC helps make up for it in the top end. You should definetly do all the basics, try and use a 2.5 collector on the header. Crower and Crane make cams for non-vtecs. You might wanna try to increase the displacement, perhaps with a CRV block. I think 13s could be done in a non-vtec, but if you want more I am not really sure where to go. Perhaps you could put a B16 head on, but don't wire it up for VTEC and use some VTEC killer cams, they disable VTEC anyways so it would be driving on high lift the whole time, might not be fun for daily driver, but might work, just a crazy thought of mine.

UnionCity LS

well im sorry for being an idiot... good luck with your all motor LS...

J337_UNIT

turbo your ls, you will not regret it.

3 plus 1

You can make the LS fast, but it'll mean turning it into a track car. If you want to keep it streetable there's no point in building up an LS. Either swap for a C1 or C5 or turbo. Thats it. If you try and built it up NA you'll realize you spent just as much money as you would have going turbo and the turbo would still walk you like nothin.

patmcd

If your really set on building a NA LS then you should seriously consider getting a b20 block. The extra .2L can make a big difference. Aside from that get all the usual bolt-ons, then some crower 404's (or something similar), new valve train, P&P the head and intake manifold, and eventually get some high cp pistions. NA LS's can make decent power, but it is expensive and less cost effective than a turbo.

xTravBx

Alright man, to HELP you out, and not tell you GO VTEC OR TURBO ANYTHING ELSE IS SLOW, heres my advice..

It will be more expensive to achieve the same results as the other options listed above - but can be very satisfying when done. The whole vtec vs non-vtec has been discussed into the ground, so i won't even talk about all that.

My all motor setup -

B20B block
block guard
shot peened rods
JE 11:1 pistons
ARP head and rod bolts
Crower stage 3 cams
Crower dual valve springs
Crower retainers
Skunk2 IM
AEM cam gears
STR fuel rail
STR FPR
Port & Polish
Apex'i SAFC

Audi A4

WHAT were all trying to say is its gonna cost alot of money to even get 170 whp out of your Ls... i got that on only 3 pds of boost... so if you want power out a ls go turbo... u can get it n/a buts its gonna cost a lot more

StyleTEG

Why post on a subject you know nothing about?

I swear every time I see this "Vteack be give you da t0p 3nd yo!" I want to stab myself in the eyes so I never have to read it again.

VTEC DOES NOT GIVE YOU TOP END AGGRESSIVE CAM PROFILES DO

Vtec is just the ABILITY to switch to a second cam profile. VTEC gives you an idle profile. You can run just as aggressive cams in a car with out any sort of variable valve timing, and make just as much power. When you are driving for performance (drag/track/autoX), you should never fall out of vtec or your powerband, and if you do.. you have gearing issues.

All the aspects of the vtec motors (not vtec itself) are just how honda decided to build them. It has nothing to do with the ability to switch profiles. It has everything to do with using an aggressive profile.

I recently installed the crower 404s, and honestly the idle like stock. I don't know why everyone blows how they idle out of proportion. You can hear the lope from the engine bay, and you can hear it from the exhaust, but inside the car you would never know the difference. Its so mild I am wishing I would have gone with 405a's.

I have seen plenty of all motor nonVTEC's get close to 200whp, streetable, and still have tons holding them back. There is a member Teg92, who hit 192whp with no cam tuning, a 2" b-pipe, on a mustang dyno. He said it was daily drivable.

While some of the dyno queens may think that 200whp is not anything special, keep in mind that because of the stroke, the piston dwell times are different. This causes the torque to be in the midrange instead of the high end like the B18C's. The result is more power throughout the rpm range, not just peak HP. If you look at a dyno compairison of a stock B18B/B18C1/B18C5 you will know what i mean.

Turbo is not the only option for the B18B. Honestly I see lots of reliability issues unless you do a full build. Its an alluminum block, with relatively weak internals. It can be done, I have friends that have done it, but they always treated their cars like it was inches away from blowing up. Where I rag on my car all day long knowing that tuning and valvesprings were all I needed to make it safe.

UnionCity LS

[QUOTE=StyleTEG]
I have seen plenty of all motor nonVTEC's get close to 200whp, streetable, and still have tons holding them back. There is a member Teg92, who hit 192whp with no cam tuning, a 2" b-pipe, on a mustang dyno. He said it was daily drivable.

QUOTE]

id love to see that...but until then...ehhhh i belive it all up to the part about "and still having tons holding them back"

Type S

ive seen numerous 170 whp ls's with more torque than na gsr's. to all u non belivers there is a member on this board with a fully built b20 nonvtec with motorcycle ITB's making 197whp.

it can be done but the thing that is holding back nonvtec motors is the fact that the heads dont flow worth a ****. you run some pr3 pistions, ballance the bottom end, fully ported and polished head, crower 404's or 405's and tune it i guarantee you will see some serious power

No

styleteg and i seem too be some of the b18b NA guys on the forums.He is correct.Basically honda just uses vtec for more of a promotion of thinking,"oh wow it has vtec so it must be fast".Vtec is not everything.It lets you run your car and make better gas mileage then a b18a/b.While having a agressive profile on the camshaft when it activates.Basically with a b18b you could be running this agressive profile all the time because it doesent have too switch too it.This will be making much more power too 5500 or whatever you have vtec switched too.Im considering my self too get 404's but since styleteg said that is wasnt even that lopey i thin i may go with 405a's myself.Pair that with a close ratio b16 tranny...you could be killing the majority of vtec cars around.Once again let me post this chart which shows a stockish gsr graph compared too a bolton ls with 403's.The 403's are less agressive than styletegs 404's and wayyy less agressive then 405's.Expect those charts too be much bigger.But still this car would perform the gsr. https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=400125 3rd graph look at the difference in torque!

StyleTEG

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by UnionCity LS &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">id love to see that...but until then...ehhhh i belive it all up to the part about "and still having tons holding them back"
</TD></TR></TABLE>

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
here is a member Teg92, who hit 192whp with no cam tuning, a 2" b-pipe, on a mustang dyno. He said it was daily drivable.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Close to 200whp, with no cam tuning, a 2" b-pipe, and a crappy DC 4-1 header. Tons holding it back. Just read what I typed

No

what kind of internal work and cams was this guy running?Thats awesome though.Styleteg is your car your dailydriver?

White98LS

I'm perfectly happy with my all-motor LS setup. It is the perfect amount of power for autocross IMO (which is what I race in competitively), and I'd rather have immediate response than a laggy turbo setup for auto-x.

For $2k in parts (cams, cam gears, FPR, S-AFC and bolt-ons), I have 148whp and 126wtq peaking at 4300rpm - midrange that's actually useful in auto-x. You won't find this kind of midrange with a bolt-on GS-R folks. Besides, if my engine takes a crap on me, $700 and a new B20 complete motor would be mine. In my opinion, the LS/B20 motor is the BEST choice for auto-x, and a lot of fun in daily driving. Not my first choice for drag purposes, but it's not a worthless setup like some of you seem to believe. Oh btw I also make about the same wtq as a stock GS-R (107wtq) at 2300rpm, and a GS-R engine swap costs about the same as my engine plus my parts. It idles very steadily and gets the same gas mileage as stock, significantly better on the highway.

BTW, 4 people at the auto-x last weekend asked me if I had a turbo. Needless to say they were more than a little surprised to learn that I didn't even have the prized VTEC.

StyleTEG

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by narib2oo1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">what kind of internal work and cams was this guy running?Thats awesome though.Styleteg is your car your dailydriver?</TD></TR></TABLE>

He had 405s and a B20, not sure of the exact compression but my guess is high
probably in the 12:1 range.

No

is that your peak hp and torque?Seems very early in the powerband.But awesome nontheless.Ya im gonna go this route.Im glad too see people are starting too realize they dont need vtec too go fast!

JDMorgan

displacement, compression, and headwork are key. also extremely lumpy cams.

FlaN.

those lumpy cams will give you a crazy idle, and a crazy ride. I wouldn't suggest a seriously fully-built LS as a street car. If you want to go all motor, ls/vtec fully build would yield better results

98integraLS

iTrader: (1)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by StyleTEG &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Why post on a subject you know nothing about?

I swear every time I see this "Vteack be give you da t0p 3nd yo!" I want to stab myself in the eyes so I never have to read it again.

VTEC DOES NOT GIVE YOU TOP END AGGRESSIVE CAM PROFILES DO

Vtec is just the ABILITY to switch to a second cam profile. VTEC gives you an idle profile. You can run just as aggressive cams in a car with out any sort of variable valve timing, and make just as much power. When you are driving for performance (drag/track/autoX), you should never fall out of vtec or your powerband, and if you do.. you have gearing issues.

All the aspects of the vtec motors (not vtec itself) are just how honda decided to build them. It has nothing to do with the ability to switch profiles. It has everything to do with using an aggressive profile.

I recently installed the crower 404s, and honestly the idle like stock. I don't know why everyone blows how they idle out of proportion. You can hear the lope from the engine bay, and you can hear it from the exhaust, but inside the car you would never know the difference. Its so mild I am wishing I would have gone with 405a's.

I have seen plenty of all motor nonVTEC's get close to 200whp, streetable, and still have tons holding them back. There is a member Teg92, who hit 192whp with no cam tuning, a 2" b-pipe, on a mustang dyno. He said it was daily drivable.

While some of the dyno queens may think that 200whp is not anything special, keep in mind that because of the stroke, the piston dwell times are different. This causes the torque to be in the midrange instead of the high end like the B18C's. The result is more power throughout the rpm range, not just peak HP. If you look at a dyno compairison of a stock B18B/B18C1/B18C5 you will know what i mean.

Turbo is not the only option for the B18B. Honestly I see lots of reliability issues unless you do a full build. Its an alluminum block, with relatively weak internals. It can be done, I have friends that have done it, but they always treated their cars like it was inches away from blowing up. Where I rag on my car all day long knowing that tuning and valvesprings were all I needed to make it safe.</TD></TR></TABLE>
mah JDM vtech megahurtz button onwz j00!!

hahaha seriously...

i agree 100% with ross. Honda built the b18c motors better, and gave them numerous advanatages from the factory.

i will be running an itr tranny on my LS this year w i(haha)/h/e and minor suspension i bet i will go high 14s EASY.. why? i hit 15.3 w/o an lsd and horrid gears last year.

White98LS

Peak torque was at 4300rpm, peak hp was at 6500-6900, it kind of plateaus.

With a different intake a few months before, my peak torque was at 4000rpm.