Well, my rollcage is just about done and I thought I'd post the pics up to see what you all thought.. Jamie(Doc Cortez) did the main hoop and halo, my dad's fabricator(Gene @ Rodworks in STL) did the rest..

I think it looks fine for the most part.. our only question is if the nascar bars should be a little higher or not.. it's only tacked up at the moment, so it could be changed easily.. on to the pics:











Thanks!

 

I've always wondered why people don't do something with these sharp edges, but that door looks brutal

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">58
15.5.12 Door Bars / Side Impact Protection
At least one (1) door bar on driver side and one (1) on the passenger side must be used. Door bars on the passenger side are optional. The driver’s door window glass, window operating mechanism, armrest, map pockets, door panel, and inside door latch may be removed providing that is for the sole purpose of installing “NASCAR” style door bars.* The stock side impact beam, if equipped, and the outside door latch/lock mechanism shall not be removed or modified.

*This gutting of the door is only permitted on driver’s door and, if undertaken, the roll cage must incorporate at least two (2) NASCAR style door bars that extend into the door. Certain class rules may supersede this rule. “NASCAR Style” means to NASCAR specification in regard to configuration. For example, the two required bars should be parallel with respect to each other, and contain the appropriate vertical support tubes. See NASCAR rules for more information.</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Evil Drew M &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">... one (1) on the passenger side must be used. Door bars on the passenger side are optional. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm wondering how this makes sense.

 

The formatting of the CCR didn't come through...the "Door bars on the passenger side are optional." sentence is actually crossed out in the CCR....

Matt

 

ah, ok

so whats up with those sheetmetal daggers? Anyone ever round them off, or do anything with them aside from leave them hanging there, waiting to cut someone/thing up?

 

Weatherstripping

 

My you seem worried about those edges.

 

i think they mean NASCAR bars are optional on the passenger side.. and yeah, sharp metal = scary.. that'll be addressed later..

as for the parallel thing, I see that in the rules as well, which appears to be a recent addition to the NASA CCR. At the same time, I've seen numerous HC cars with them done like mine are. And I know how mine ended up that way(by looking at those other examples). How are these other people running them like that?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mstewar &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i think they mean NASCAR bars are optional on the passenger side.. and yeah, sharp metal = scary.. that'll be addressed later.</TD></TR></TABLE>

No - they used to be optional as in you didn't need passenger side door bars. They have since changed it to the way the line actually reads requiring at least 1 bar on each side. The NASCAR bars are optional on the driver's side.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mstewar &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
as for the parallel thing, I see that in the rules as well, which appears to be a recent addition to the NASA CCR. At the same time, I've seen numerous HC cars with them done like mine are. And I know how mine ended up that way(by looking at those other examples). How are these other people running them like that?</TD></TR></TABLE>

well parrallel if i remeber correctly is when two lines are on the same plan and will never intersect each other. yours are not, so the way i see the rule yours wouldn't be legal.

maybe they used the word parrallel to mean, never intersecting from the main hoop to the front bar.

that i can't answer


and yes i too seem to remeber some other pics showing a decreaseing length on the pillar mounts for the NASCAR door bars

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mstewar &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">.. our only question is if the nascar bars should be a little higher or not.. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Mine are higher, but yours look ok.

Here's my thinking:
Point another cars' bumper at your door (as if T-bone'd) and see if you like where the door bars are currently.

$.02

 

the driver door bars should come up , ALOT.

and I would tell him to roll the edges of the gutted door also.

oh and please tell him to grab that front bulkhead as the 2 final pickup points , thats where you pick up alot of rigidity.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mstewar &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
as for the parallel thing, I see that in the rules as well, which appears to be a recent addition to the NASA CCR. At the same time, I've seen numerous HC cars with them done like mine are. And I know how mine ended up that way(by looking at those other examples). How are these other people running them like that?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Nice cage. Aside from the rules for a minute, think about safety and stiffness. If you choose to raise the front of the driver side door bar and make it 'parallel', you'll provide more support to the 'A' pillar bar and stiffen up the driver's side of the cage. The way you have it now leaves a big hole in the cage. Imagine the front corner of another car getting in there...and don't assume that it will come at you at static bumper height, and level. Driver entry/egres will only get a little worse if you level and/or raise the top bar. Another benefit is that you can gut more of the door if your bar runs higher (less weight).

The way you did your passenger side is . That big X supports the 'A' pillar bar really well! I did mine the same way. If your e-mail add in your profile is active, I'll send some pics. Feel free to post if you wish.

You've got a very nice cage as is, you have an opportunity to make it better.

Good luck!

 

thanks for the additional comments everyone.. as far as raising the top door bar a bit, it will then interfere with the side of the dash paneling.. is that allowable? ie, those little side panels of the dash that face the door will have to be cut a lot or removed..

track rat, more pics are always helpful! mstewar@loyno.edu is the best place to email them to me.. thanks!

jamie, I'll make sure we tie that into the front bulkhead.. good catch!

edit: could the dash itself even be cut into there, legally, to accomodate a higher bar?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mstewar &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I'll make sure we tie that into the front bulkhead.. good catch!</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mstewar &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">mstewar@loyno.edu
edit: could the dash itself even be cut into there, legally, to accomodate a higher bar?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Pics on the way.

It is a bit of a grey area, but nearly all rules allow removal of some items that interfere with roll cage and safety equip. So, the opportunist would design his roll cage to interfere with items that he does not want to carry around Yes, it is accepted to trim the dash (within reason) to accomodate the cage.

 

ok.. well, the NASCAR bar is being redone.. thanks again for the tips/tech info.. for being legal AND safe..

my only question remaining is how these other cages passed tech with non-parallel bars or bars that are as low as mine?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mstewar &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> my only question remaining is how these other cages passed tech with non-parallel bars or bars that are as low as mine?</TD></TR></TABLE>

I guess it is open to interpretation. As someone said, parallel literally means they'll never intersect. I guess someone could argue that if they terminate into the 'A'pillar bar and main hoop without intersecting, they meet the rule's intent? Regardless of this, your change will result in a slightly stiffer and safer setup without additional weight.

 

Doesn't the diagonal that is in the main hoop have to be one piece?

 

Maybe Grumpy will jump in here with something more reliable but "should be parallel" sounds like a recommendation. "Shall be parallel" would mean that it is a requirement.

K

 

Is this a 92-95 civic? If it is, I have the same car. I also have the dash bar coming across at the same place. This location makes it very difficult to install the dash at the instrument cluster area. I even had to remove the bottom part of my instrument cluster. Luckily only the srs light is there. I would have the bar bent toward the front just where the instrument cluster is. Hard to explain but have it detour around the instrument cluster. That's what I would do next time. Ha ha, next time, now that is funny. Good luck!

 

it's an ITR.. I guess we'll see if we have to do the same modifying..

 

If its for SCCA (IT/SS), I believe Hracer is correct and the diagonal in the main hoop must be one piece. Not sure about NASA's rules. There is a thread that Grumpy started a while back that you might want to check (its probably just the angle of the photo but the diagonal looks like it attaches to the top of the main hoop a pretty good distance from the bend - I thought Grumps said it should attach w/in 6 inches of that bend ??). And I too would get those door bars higher, doing so will give you an opportunity to gut the rest of the door which might take care of those edges too.

 

The rule was changed to include the word "parallel" because of "misuse" of the door bar rule. I would say they are "parallel" enough. However they are legally, but, shall we say not, "usefully" low.

As mentioned I would want to gain as much structural and intrustion advantage and still be able to exit the car within the time specified in the CCR. Yes there is a time rule.

Additionally, the driver’s door window glass, window operating mechanism, rmrest, map pockets, door panel, and inside door latch may be removed providing that is or the sole purpose of installing “NASCAR” style door bars. The stock side impact beam, if equipped, and the outside door latch/lock mechanism shall not be removed or modified.

NASA requires the diagional to go from driver head to passenger floor, SCCA doesn't care. NASA requires the diagional to attach withi 12" of diriver corner of main hoop.


Modified by Grumpy at 11:03 AM 9/22/2004