ok i was sitting here kinda sad cause i cant afford dyno time for a month at least and this is my daily driver ..so i had to put it back to stock .....(h22a with gsxr 1000 itbs with injectors running in the gsxr injector location...it just ran way to rich to drive around )

any how ...
a MAP sensor see's around 5 volts at idle and less as you decrease vacuum .....(open trottle)

itbs run consistently less vacuum at idle then a common plenum .
(this is all just guessing )
but from what i read ITB s will yield -10hg at idle ,or around there ..vs -20hg for a plenum ....now as i said these are just examples

So the plenum sees -20hg=5 volts at idle ..
ITBS see -10hg=lets say 2.5volts at idle ......this making the ecu think that this motor should have alot more fuel in it .

people with ghettodyn and stuff have resteped there MAP scale to read from say -16hg to 0hg ...this seems to work well for them ...what i plan on trying is using an extra TPS sensor i have replacing it instead of the MAP....since the ecu only sees a voltage reading and really has no idea nor does it care (i think )..it just takes a numerical vale and in turn make an adjustment . With this TPS sensor i was going to set it at (for example)2.5 volts for idle (keep in mind the stock tps sensor is still used for tps readings) and with it being linear ,it can be wired to decrease voltage all the way to full throttle or 0 volts (ruffly)...now some say its just not going to work but if you really think and simplify it its just a number .....yes i know it wont be as accurate as the proper MAP signal but im thinking temporary till i can get the rest figured out ...guys running standalone usually dont run MAP ...they change to a TPS base fuel and timing map probably cause of the fast vacuum changes of the itbs .....

tell me what you guys think .........and try to be open minded ..this is all about the ghetto

 

Look into Uberdata's map scaler.


Edit:Keep in mind that I am very n00b with uberdata. I suggest you actually make an account on the uberdata forum, or on the pgmfi.com forums, read up, ask questions, etc etc. Very smart guys over there.

Addditionally, after speakign with Paul Davenport (Slebidia), you also need to keep in mind vacuum ranges during engine braking, so dont take my example as fact at all, im simply explaining you can use the map scalar to your advantage.


Modified by JaeOne3345 at 9:21 PM 7/7/2004

 

cool ...i know my tuner can set new values for my MAP but i dotn want to waste 400 dollars to tune if its not gonna be any faster then it is now....know what i mean .....it would be a good thing to use to decide i guess ...ill look into it ..
how much o these cost or is it somthing you build

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by machine4321 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">cool ...i know my tuner can set new values for my MAP but i dotn want to waste 400 dollars to tune if its not gonna be any faster then it is now....know what i mean .....it would be a good thing to use to decide i guess ...ill look into it ..
how much o these cost or is it somthing you build </TD></TR></TABLE>

400 to tune? Uberdata is free. Get a socketed/chip ready p28, an eeprom capable burner, some chips, a wideband with some form of datalogging, etc etc, and start learning this **** yourself.

Read the uberdata forums, Read the pgfmi forums. I am not even fuel injected anymore (i am running carbs now), but this stuff is so intriguing. Take advantage of it man. All the h-t ecu guru's like J. Davis and others are all on those boards. Plus there is less bias. Read up.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by machine4321 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">a MAP sensor see's around 5 volts at idle and less as you decrease vacuum .....(open trottle)</TD></TR></TABLE>

Nope. MAP sensor gets fed 5 volt referrence voltage, it returns around 1.6 volts at idle and 3.0-3.1 volts at WOT. The only MAP I can think of that is an inverse scale is early GM MAP, like on the ~81-83 Caddy's Digital FI.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by machine4321 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">itbs run consistently less vacuum at idle then a common plenum .
(this is all just guessing )
but from what i read ITB s will yield -10hg at idle ,or around there ..vs -20hg for a plenum ....now as i said these are just examples </TD></TR></TABLE>

Yup, that's pretty much the problem. I'd get a $5 Homeboy Depot vacuum gauge and verify for yourself what yours runs at, though.


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JaeOne3345 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Look into Uberdata's map scalar</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yup.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JaeOne3345 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">All the h-t ecu guru's like J. Davis </TD></TR></TABLE>

Oh, hush now, or Max Ha will get all uptight (again) and challenge me to a race with one of his customer's cars (again), then not follow through (again), as if that has anything to do with anything.

 

cool i must hae read the info wrong ...but you get the idea...im diff looing in to uberdata ...dam its cool ....

but how about my idea.....you thikn it would work ?

oh and the tunning price was canadian and hell has the car for 4 to 6 hours ...he has a water brake dyno and tunes amazing part throttle maps .....btu its all in code so i dont understand it at all ..

but ive seen him pull 20 whp from a b16 with ctr cams header and intake.....got it from 140 to a 158..well not 20 but i was dam im pressed

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by J. Davis &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
oh, hush now, or Max Ha will get all uptight (again) and challenge me to a race with one of his customer's cars (again), then not follow through (again), as if that has anything to do with anything.


</TD></TR></TABLE>


not follow through?? what are you on? If people were to only know how much of a phony you really are. that would be funny... Dont make false alligations about RACING&gt;. thats a subject you know nothing about.. I told you if you want to race your car to put your money where your mouth is... your the guy who pulled the disapeering act.. your the one who bitched out.. I dont offer a challenge and not go through with it.. your the so called phantom ecu guy. never seen one fast car or anything worth mentioning come out of you.. maybe you should go back to playing more dungeons and dragons in your moms basement.. people like you talk all loud. but in person your nothing more then a coward.. anytime you want to race me let me know.. Get your facts straight. and stop making up lies.. j davis CHUMP..


Modified by MHRacing-310 at 10:52 PM 7/8/2004

 

thanks for your help ....i guess

 

arenteh gsxr itb's only like 39-43mm, or something like that. i see them actually starving an engine if they are less then 50mm.

edit:yeah, they are 45mm...which in my book is a little bit too small.

 

there 42 at the smallest part ...48 at the tip

and i thin for the mods i have they will go well ....but i could be wrong ....

 

yeah, this thread sorta went bad fast.

 

you could be right, dont doubt yourself. they would have much velocity after being forced down 6mm thru the TB. depends on where your engine likes to breathe really.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RABHonda &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">arenteh gsxr itb's only like 39-43mm, or something like that. i see them actually starving an engine if they are less then 50mm.

edit:yeah, they are 45mm...which in my book is a little bit too small. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Remember that the JGTC NSX's run with a single 41mm throttle body and that it has a V6 to feed. With proper design and tuning, the GSXR setup is more than capable.

 

the map sensor output voltage has inverse reading than the tps. the internal rom map is a bit more complicated than you mention, its more than jsut a lookup value. uberdata is your best bet, easy and simply and always someone around to help, there is a guy on here jdog something that can help you too.

I personally custom program each eprom for people based on their settings, so you should get a vaccum guage and read what it says at idle. use a decent size canister such as the iab canister from a gsr intake manifold, tee off #1 and #4 and connect # and #2 in parallel ... I've seen best vaccum with this method.

greg

 

ive got 1 and 4 goign to a seperate cannister and 2 and 3 going to one for fpr and brake booster ....im goign to get a welfare vac gauge to see what it runs at ....plus it will help me synce the 4 of them up

i had no problems with vaccume but they just dont have enough to run the map correctly ...and keep in mind i have no form of engine management at all

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by machine4321 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
i had no problems with vaccume but they just dont have enough to run the map correctly ...and keep in mind i have no form of engine management at all </TD></TR></TABLE>

This is why in uberdata you scale your map values down for the sort of vac readings the ITB's are giving. You say you have no form of engine management at all but UD is free at the click of a download.

This is why greg mentions getting a reading of your vacuum at idle, additionally get some vac readings at partial throttle cruising, in diff rpms, etc etc. This should in theory give you a range of where the engine is vacuum-wise under different load/vac/rpm circumstances. Then in a prog like uberdata you can tune your fuel for those different circumstances.

 

im on the uber train for sure .....but my problem im going to have is i cant get the info from my current chip and modify from there since it wasnt uber that it was made from


i guess i could take the gsr fuel map and richen it up abit ....

spoke with my tuner and he makes his own map sensors...and he has one that is rescaled for this application ...just dont know how much it is

 

oh and where would i find a cheap vac gauge

 

bump

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MHRacing-310 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">not follow through?? what are you on? If people were to only know how much of a phony you really are. that would be funny... Dont make false alligations about RACING&gt;. thats a subject you know nothing about.. I told you if you want to race your car to put your money where your mouth is.</TD></TR></TABLE>

No, you're the guy who said I would be afraid to race one of your customer's cars, I said I wasn't, and agreed to said race. At first I was too much of a bitch to accept your race, and once I did I was a bitch for accepting it. Now I'm a bitch because you hide it and won't provide it.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MHRacing-310 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
.. your the guy who pulled the disapeering act.. your the one who bitched out.. I dont offer a challenge and not go through with it.. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Actually, you tried to get me to go on a long distance road trip toMIR on 24 hours notice, which doesn't work in the real world. Then you avoided the thread for 48 hours, I went to bump it, and found it deleted. THOSE are the facts.

 

haha, max ha and his many ignorant post. i love reading em on the toiliet. reading **** helps me ****.

 

and joseph lives in a basement, just not his mother's

 

Mrs gsrswapandslow, first of all this thread is called itb gurus please come in..

NOT, Hermaphridites with slow gsr swaps come in.. Ingorant? Go wash your mouth out kid, YOU are the most ignorant person on here. should we go in depth of the past 5 threads you made up? you ask the most retarded questions I have ever seen!!! will k20 injectors work for my b series? will someone run 10s in a street class n/a car at a track thats waaay above sea level?? what are you a MORON?? the list goes on and on.. Basically its like this.. You have no business calling anyone anything.. YOU ARE A TOY! you need to just sit behind your computer and watch, listen to what people who know what there talking about speak.. and then learn.. not open your TRAP DOOR. All of your posts are nothing but questions about meaningless jargon.. Go back to cheerleading for your team..


And for your Boyfriend Joseph davis.. Look, you trouser snake licker, I dont know how many levels of dungeons and dragons you played in your moms basement in the last 5 hours, or how many star trek outfits you have in your closet, Or maybe you put on your g string backwards again this morning.. but you need to GET A LIFE!!! You racing is a absolute RIOT!! look at the stuff your asking for a ZC half shaft??? LOL is that your race motor your buidling?? and a broken JRSC?? WTH?? broken is right.. thats all you amount to is a ZC half shaft and trashed heap of a supercharger kit..

I dont know why your trying to change your story, Nobody is going to beleive your going to race your car.. your going to all these lengths to try and make it seem like i didnt want my customer to race you??? LOL ROFLMAO.. your a real piece of work! I would want nothing more then to see anyone of my customers come and lite your *** up on the track.. I would pay for half your gas just to see what you would come to race with.. Your lucky i dont live nearby or else we would have set something up at the track, and I would have made it very very public, and for a very high dollar amount.. You talk crap on hondata.. LOL id like to see you talk that smack to the guy responsible for bringing hondata over the to US..

Bottom line.. you are not a racer.. your a RICER.. Racers dont bitch out and make up excuses, and try to fool a bunch of impressionable kids with your fake BOOK talk, YOu dont have any real world racing experience, Why dont you stop trying to lie to these kids on here??? people like you make me want to just BITCH SLAP your ***.. u shouldnt open your mouth to talk about racing when you know nothing about it.. You are a TOY! stick to playing with your ecu's and phantom check lights. or whatever it is you think you do.. ALL you know is what you PLAGERIZE from the internet, Your shinanigans have come to an end.. your not fooling anyone here anymore.. Get the hell our of here LOSER!!


Modified by MHRacing-310 at 12:01 AM 7/10/2004

 

 

This was actually a good thread with some valid questions until it went blah...