HELP!! - 87' Accord - NOx too high but passes HC and CO fine - EGR valve tested
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HELP!! - 87' Accord - NOx too high but passes HC and CO fine - EGR valve tested
This is way too long, but I'll give it shot anyway (BTW, it's a 87' Accord DX carburated model)...
My NOx levels are too high yet it appears my EGR valve is working properly. Here are my stats as of yesterday:
15mph (1870 rpm):
%CO2 - 13.4
%O2 - 1.6
HC(PPM) - MAX: 127 - MEAS: 14
CO% - MAX: .79 - MEAS: .01
NOx(PPM) - MAX: 825 - MEAS: 1944
25mph (1965 rpm):
%CO2 - 13.6
%O2 - 1.4
HC(PPM) - MAX: 101 - MEAS: 10
CO% - MAX: .68 - MEAS: .01
NOx(PPM) - MAX: 764 - MEAS: 1762
During the pretest (yes I'm in CA), it passed every other inspection area except for timing.
Here are the questions for anyone who might have some ideas...
1) The timing is supposed to be 15 deg BTDC but was 21 deg when checked during the pretest (I've now fixed this). I don't know why it was this high since I thought I had checked it last month, but I know correcting it will help NOx levels to some degree. Will it help enough to make that much of a difference?
2) I've tested the EGR valve and have verified that application of vacuum at idle will stall the engine. The diaphram will hold 15hg steady for 30 seconds (no leaks), and the vacuum source is zero at idle. It's about 4hg at ~4000rpm and drops to zero during deceleration, as per spec. I'll be testing it under load with a tee and a vacuum gauge on the dashboard sometime today. Is there anything else I should test in regards to the EGR valve and related system?
3) I'm taking a long trip today, so I'm running two cans of Chemtool B-12 through the first half tank of gas, and then a carbon deposit and port cleaner though the next tank (polyether amine [PEA] - similar to Techron). I've never had any detonation problems and drive pretty aggressively, so I wonder just how many carbon deposits I could actually have. I know reducing these deposits can help with NOx levels, but should I expect that much?
4) This is really reaching... I have not performed a compression test but the performance is so good I would doubt there is much piston blow-by, but at this age I'm not too sure about the valve seals. Would a viscosity enhancer such as STP type stuff help this to any degree (I just changed the oil and used 20-50 to help this a bit). Also, could slightly burnt exhaust valves raise NOx levels this much while still producing such low HC and CO levels?
5) It has a 'three way catalytic' converter (TWC) that reduces NOx levels if working properly. Is it possible for just the NOx portion of the converter (Rhodium based) to fail or get poisoned, while the HC and CO portion works as well as the above figures suggest? I doubt it is plugged since I have no acceleration issues at just over 100,000 miles, although I have not conducted vacuum tests to test for this yet.
6) Staying on the TWC issue; it's known the NOx portion of converters will have a very reduced efficiency if the air/fuel mixture causes the engine to run too lean (outside stoichiometry). Is it possible the 21 degree advanced timing could have raised the engine temperature enough to cause the converter to go outside its operating parameters to convert NOx gases efficiently?
7) Still concentrating on the TWC... As mentioned, when the air/fuel ratio is leaner than stoichiometry, the converter's ability to convert NOx gases is greatly reduced. While the EGR valve/system is routinely the cause of excessive NOx emissions, the Ox sensor is rarely blamed although it seems it can have a substantial effect. Some of the most common failure modes for Ox sensors result in shifted values which result in a lean air/fuel ratio verses outright failure of the sensor. Although NOx gases are converted extremely well when the air/fuel mixture is somewhat rich, even the slightest shift towards lean causes a significant reduction in NOx gas conversion. Is there a way to test the Ox sensor for operation within its design range, should I just change it out, or should I not consider it at all? If the mixture is lean, would replacing the clean air filter with a dirty one result in a richer air/fuel mixture, or would the ECU use the Ox sensor's readings to compensate for it and result in the same air/fuel mixture as before with reduce performance?
OK, too many questions and too little time :D
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated...
My NOx levels are too high yet it appears my EGR valve is working properly. Here are my stats as of yesterday:
15mph (1870 rpm):
%CO2 - 13.4
%O2 - 1.6
HC(PPM) - MAX: 127 - MEAS: 14
CO% - MAX: .79 - MEAS: .01
NOx(PPM) - MAX: 825 - MEAS: 1944
25mph (1965 rpm):
%CO2 - 13.6
%O2 - 1.4
HC(PPM) - MAX: 101 - MEAS: 10
CO% - MAX: .68 - MEAS: .01
NOx(PPM) - MAX: 764 - MEAS: 1762
During the pretest (yes I'm in CA), it passed every other inspection area except for timing.
Here are the questions for anyone who might have some ideas...
1) The timing is supposed to be 15 deg BTDC but was 21 deg when checked during the pretest (I've now fixed this). I don't know why it was this high since I thought I had checked it last month, but I know correcting it will help NOx levels to some degree. Will it help enough to make that much of a difference?
2) I've tested the EGR valve and have verified that application of vacuum at idle will stall the engine. The diaphram will hold 15hg steady for 30 seconds (no leaks), and the vacuum source is zero at idle. It's about 4hg at ~4000rpm and drops to zero during deceleration, as per spec. I'll be testing it under load with a tee and a vacuum gauge on the dashboard sometime today. Is there anything else I should test in regards to the EGR valve and related system?
3) I'm taking a long trip today, so I'm running two cans of Chemtool B-12 through the first half tank of gas, and then a carbon deposit and port cleaner though the next tank (polyether amine [PEA] - similar to Techron). I've never had any detonation problems and drive pretty aggressively, so I wonder just how many carbon deposits I could actually have. I know reducing these deposits can help with NOx levels, but should I expect that much?
4) This is really reaching... I have not performed a compression test but the performance is so good I would doubt there is much piston blow-by, but at this age I'm not too sure about the valve seals. Would a viscosity enhancer such as STP type stuff help this to any degree (I just changed the oil and used 20-50 to help this a bit). Also, could slightly burnt exhaust valves raise NOx levels this much while still producing such low HC and CO levels?
5) It has a 'three way catalytic' converter (TWC) that reduces NOx levels if working properly. Is it possible for just the NOx portion of the converter (Rhodium based) to fail or get poisoned, while the HC and CO portion works as well as the above figures suggest? I doubt it is plugged since I have no acceleration issues at just over 100,000 miles, although I have not conducted vacuum tests to test for this yet.
6) Staying on the TWC issue; it's known the NOx portion of converters will have a very reduced efficiency if the air/fuel mixture causes the engine to run too lean (outside stoichiometry). Is it possible the 21 degree advanced timing could have raised the engine temperature enough to cause the converter to go outside its operating parameters to convert NOx gases efficiently?
7) Still concentrating on the TWC... As mentioned, when the air/fuel ratio is leaner than stoichiometry, the converter's ability to convert NOx gases is greatly reduced. While the EGR valve/system is routinely the cause of excessive NOx emissions, the Ox sensor is rarely blamed although it seems it can have a substantial effect. Some of the most common failure modes for Ox sensors result in shifted values which result in a lean air/fuel ratio verses outright failure of the sensor. Although NOx gases are converted extremely well when the air/fuel mixture is somewhat rich, even the slightest shift towards lean causes a significant reduction in NOx gas conversion. Is there a way to test the Ox sensor for operation within its design range, should I just change it out, or should I not consider it at all? If the mixture is lean, would replacing the clean air filter with a dirty one result in a richer air/fuel mixture, or would the ECU use the Ox sensor's readings to compensate for it and result in the same air/fuel mixture as before with reduce performance?
OK, too many questions and too little time :D
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated...
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,574
Likes: 6
From: Cincinnati,, Oh
Re: HELP!! - 87' Accord - NOx too high but passes HC and CO fine - EGR valve tested (Ardfarkle)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Ardfarkle »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
1) The timing is supposed to be 15 deg BTDC but was 21 deg when checked during the pretest (I've now fixed this). I don't know why it was this high since I thought I had checked it last month, but I know correcting it will help NOx levels to some degree. Will it help enough to make that much of a difference?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Advanced timeing is a common cause of nox failure. Check the advance weights, they may be sticking. (common problem) The timing changing on you is a good indicator. Might want to check that the vacuum advance isn't leaking also.
1) The timing is supposed to be 15 deg BTDC but was 21 deg when checked during the pretest (I've now fixed this). I don't know why it was this high since I thought I had checked it last month, but I know correcting it will help NOx levels to some degree. Will it help enough to make that much of a difference?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Advanced timeing is a common cause of nox failure. Check the advance weights, they may be sticking. (common problem) The timing changing on you is a good indicator. Might want to check that the vacuum advance isn't leaking also.
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Re: HELP!! - 87' Accord - NOx too high but passes HC and CO fine - EGR valve tested (Chiovnidca)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Chiovnidca »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
... Check the advance weights, they may be sticking. ... Might want to check that the vacuum advance isn't leaking also.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Thanks Chiovnidca, I had already checked these areas but didn't list them.
I've already checked most common problem areas which is why I'm so confused and am now grasping at straws.
... Check the advance weights, they may be sticking. ... Might want to check that the vacuum advance isn't leaking also.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Thanks Chiovnidca, I had already checked these areas but didn't list them.
I've already checked most common problem areas which is why I'm so confused and am now grasping at straws.
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 903
Likes: 1
From: Los Angeles, CA
Re: HELP!! - 87' Accord - NOx too high but passes HC and CO fine - EGR valve tested (Ardfarkle)
wow...your NOx levels are gross-polluter level. I hope you didn't get tagged.
What's the total mileage on the chassis and convertor?
Correct me if I'm wrong but 3rd gen carb'd accords shouldn't have o2 sensors. Only fuel-injected LX-i models should have them.
I'm uncomfortable with your O2 output being so high.
1) Have you changed the timing belt lately? You might be off a tooth.
What's the total mileage on the chassis and convertor?
Correct me if I'm wrong but 3rd gen carb'd accords shouldn't have o2 sensors. Only fuel-injected LX-i models should have them.
I'm uncomfortable with your O2 output being so high.
1) Have you changed the timing belt lately? You might be off a tooth.
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,320
Likes: 1
From: Winnetka, CA, USA
Re: HELP!! - 87' Accord - NOx too high but passes HC and CO fine - EGR valve tested (RotaryBzzzz)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RotaryBzzzz »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Correct me if I'm wrong but 3rd gen carb'd accords shouldn't have o2 sensors.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
they do have them it's a feedback system. could be that you're running lean do these steps before.
1. test egr under load
2. set timing to specs
3. test out put of O2 signal(s) some 3rd gen accords have two
4. check cooling system
Correct me if I'm wrong but 3rd gen carb'd accords shouldn't have o2 sensors.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
they do have them it's a feedback system. could be that you're running lean do these steps before.
1. test egr under load
2. set timing to specs
3. test out put of O2 signal(s) some 3rd gen accords have two
4. check cooling system
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Re: HELP!! - 87' Accord - NOx too high but passes HC and CO fine - EGR valve tested (Qfactor)
First of all, thanks to those who took the time to respond. I had to go out of town and couldn't respond to this thread in a timely manner, so I put my replies at the end of this post.
As it stands now I've run all of the additives through plus another 1/4 tank of 'virgin' 89 octane fuel. In addition, I've done some additional tests. I created a checklist which I won't display here, but here's a link to it in case anyone is interested in what I have checked so far. The checklist was created from a European version of the shop manual I found on Russian site since all I had were the lousy service manuals offered by most local parts stores. Note: This checklist was produced on the fly and no time was taken to determine if any particular test was specific to this vehicle. I did modify it to reflect any differences listed in the under hood VECI label.
http://www.d30.info/offsite/examples/Emissions.pdf
I also flushed the cooling system and replaced the coolant, put in a new lower temp thermostat, replaced the plugs and gapped them to 1.1mm for a cooler burn verses a smaller gap to allow them to burn the gap out to optimum, and replaced the cap, rotor, and plug wires.
There are a few things that are still confusing to me, and I hope some of you might be able to provide some input.
1) In all of the manuals I have, including the Russian one, it says to disconnect the two hoses from the advance diaphragms on the distributer and plug them when adjusting the timing. While plugging them does make the system run more smoothly, removing them also reduces the idle RPM quite a bit which requires the idle to be re-adjusted so it doesn't die. After adjusting the timing, re-attaching the hoses raises the idle far too high which then needs to be re-adjusted again. Is this the correct procedure? It seems counter productive to me. Does the idle vacuum advance the timing enough that this is necessary? BTW, two shops I had my smog done at in the past did not remove the vacuum lines when checking the timing (this was before CA Smog II).
I ended up adjusting the timing to 14 degrees BTDC with the hoses attached.
2) None of the text provided for the extended EGR valve testing at the vacuum control box makes any sense to me. Here's the basic instructions from two manuals:
-------------
Remove the control box from the firewall, it's attached with four bolts. Remove the control box cover which is held on by four screws. Vacuum at the EGR hose should be (truth table):
Idle - vacuum = none
3000 RPM+ - vacuum = 1.5-6" Hg
3000 RPM+ with blocked vacuum bleed - vacuum = less than 1.5" Hg
Rapid acceleration - vacuum = 1.5-6" Hg
Deceleration - vacuum = none
-------------
While most of this makes sense when tested at the EGR valve hose that connects to the valve itself, it makes little sense when connected at the control box. This would be nothing more than a connection to the hose that goes to the valve. There is no vacuum. In one of the manuals it shows a diagram where the EGR valve hose is shown disconnected from an air filter inside the control box and the hose is plugged. OK, where does the vacuum gauge connect, and why bother plugging the hose? And BTW, what is a 'vacuum bleed' and where is it located? I've heard of a vacuum bleed 'valve'.
Perhaps they meant to test after the ERG control valve with the air filter removed, but if this is so then why do they show the hoses from the EGR valve plugged? What good does it do to plug a hose that has no vacuum present?
Does anyone have a better description of what they actually want tested and where they want you to test it?
-----------------------------------
Replies to previous posts below:
After re-checking it, the outer diaphragm is leaking a bit, but it holds far long enough that I would think the continuous vacuum provided should far more than compensate for it.
I had a 30 day operation permit. The mileage is ~102,000 miles, and the engine is original.
What am I looking for? I know to check to see if the engine dies when vacuum is applied to the valve at idle, and to check the available vacuum, thermovalve, and control valve. What am I looking for under load? Available vacuum to actuate/modulate the valve?
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">2. set timing to specs</TD></TR></TABLE>
I have set it to 14 degrees BTDC as mentioned above.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">3. test out put of O2 signal(s) some 3rd gen accords have two</TD></TR></TABLE>
I have one, but have not checked it yet.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">4. check cooling system</TD></TR></TABLE>
I have checked/changed it as mentioned above.
Modified by Ardfarkle at 9:39 PM 5/18/2004
As it stands now I've run all of the additives through plus another 1/4 tank of 'virgin' 89 octane fuel. In addition, I've done some additional tests. I created a checklist which I won't display here, but here's a link to it in case anyone is interested in what I have checked so far. The checklist was created from a European version of the shop manual I found on Russian site since all I had were the lousy service manuals offered by most local parts stores. Note: This checklist was produced on the fly and no time was taken to determine if any particular test was specific to this vehicle. I did modify it to reflect any differences listed in the under hood VECI label.
http://www.d30.info/offsite/examples/Emissions.pdf
I also flushed the cooling system and replaced the coolant, put in a new lower temp thermostat, replaced the plugs and gapped them to 1.1mm for a cooler burn verses a smaller gap to allow them to burn the gap out to optimum, and replaced the cap, rotor, and plug wires.
There are a few things that are still confusing to me, and I hope some of you might be able to provide some input.
1) In all of the manuals I have, including the Russian one, it says to disconnect the two hoses from the advance diaphragms on the distributer and plug them when adjusting the timing. While plugging them does make the system run more smoothly, removing them also reduces the idle RPM quite a bit which requires the idle to be re-adjusted so it doesn't die. After adjusting the timing, re-attaching the hoses raises the idle far too high which then needs to be re-adjusted again. Is this the correct procedure? It seems counter productive to me. Does the idle vacuum advance the timing enough that this is necessary? BTW, two shops I had my smog done at in the past did not remove the vacuum lines when checking the timing (this was before CA Smog II).
I ended up adjusting the timing to 14 degrees BTDC with the hoses attached.
2) None of the text provided for the extended EGR valve testing at the vacuum control box makes any sense to me. Here's the basic instructions from two manuals:
-------------
Remove the control box from the firewall, it's attached with four bolts. Remove the control box cover which is held on by four screws. Vacuum at the EGR hose should be (truth table):
Idle - vacuum = none
3000 RPM+ - vacuum = 1.5-6" Hg
3000 RPM+ with blocked vacuum bleed - vacuum = less than 1.5" Hg
Rapid acceleration - vacuum = 1.5-6" Hg
Deceleration - vacuum = none
-------------
While most of this makes sense when tested at the EGR valve hose that connects to the valve itself, it makes little sense when connected at the control box. This would be nothing more than a connection to the hose that goes to the valve. There is no vacuum. In one of the manuals it shows a diagram where the EGR valve hose is shown disconnected from an air filter inside the control box and the hose is plugged. OK, where does the vacuum gauge connect, and why bother plugging the hose? And BTW, what is a 'vacuum bleed' and where is it located? I've heard of a vacuum bleed 'valve'.
Perhaps they meant to test after the ERG control valve with the air filter removed, but if this is so then why do they show the hoses from the EGR valve plugged? What good does it do to plug a hose that has no vacuum present?
Does anyone have a better description of what they actually want tested and where they want you to test it?
-----------------------------------
Replies to previous posts below:
Originally Posted by Chiovnidca
... Might want to check that the vacuum advance isn't leaking also.
Originally Posted by RotaryBzzzz
wow...your NOx levels are gross-polluter level. I hope you didn't get tagged.
What's the total mileage on the chassis and convertor?
What's the total mileage on the chassis and convertor?
Originally Posted by Qfactor
...
1. test egr under load
1. test egr under load
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">2. set timing to specs</TD></TR></TABLE>
I have set it to 14 degrees BTDC as mentioned above.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">3. test out put of O2 signal(s) some 3rd gen accords have two</TD></TR></TABLE>
I have one, but have not checked it yet.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">4. check cooling system</TD></TR></TABLE>
I have checked/changed it as mentioned above.
Modified by Ardfarkle at 9:39 PM 5/18/2004
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From: Southside ATL, GA
Re: HELP!! - 87' Accord - NOx too high but passes HC and CO fine - EGR valve tested (RotaryBzzzz)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RotaryBzzzz »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">wow...your NOx levels are gross-polluter level. I hope you didn't get tagged.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I think that's why he's here bro - to fix his problem.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'm uncomfortable with your O2 output being so high.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Well have you picked all of the splinters from your belly from hugging trees?
I find it ironic that you have "Rotary" in your SN, yet you are critical of someone with emissions problems.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I think that's why he's here bro - to fix his problem.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'm uncomfortable with your O2 output being so high.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Well have you picked all of the splinters from your belly from hugging trees?
I find it ironic that you have "Rotary" in your SN, yet you are critical of someone with emissions problems.
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Joined: May 2003
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From: Los Angeles, CA
Re: HELP!! - 87' Accord - NOx too high but passes HC and CO fine - EGR valve tested (B18C5-EH2)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B18C5-EH2 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I think that's why he's here bro - to fix his problem.
Well have you picked all of the splinters from your belly from hugging trees?
I find it ironic that you have "Rotary" in your SN, yet you are critical of someone with emissions problems.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Your reading my replies incorrectly.
.
Well have you picked all of the splinters from your belly from hugging trees?
I find it ironic that you have "Rotary" in your SN, yet you are critical of someone with emissions problems.
</TD></TR></TABLE>Your reading my replies incorrectly.
.
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Joined: May 2004
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Re: HELP!! - 87' Accord - NOx too high but passes HC and CO fine - EGR valve tested (RotaryBzzzz)
Sorry to be such a PITA but here are a few more things I forgot to mention...
I did a static vacuum advance test and confirmed the stator rotates smoothly throughout the vacuum range, however it doesn't move much, about 3/16". Is this about right?
Manually advancing the timing with a vacuum pump with the engine running yields about 6-7 degrees of advance.
Does anyone know where the mixture screw is on 87's. I've seen it shown as being on the bottom of the carburetor on some models.
And lastly, how big of a job is it to replace the transaxle 'axle' seals. Do they make an aftermarket fix-it kit
BTW, I'd drive this thing off a cliff if it weren't for the fact it runs so well, still gets great gas mileage, and is specially modified of one of my passions, photography. It has hidden chargers and DC outlets, dual isolated batteries hidden tool kits and survival stuff, and tons of physical mods to hide it all. I also have 1/8" steel plates under the car in critical areas to protect it from scrapes, rocks, etc. I also like the fact it looks ratty. I park out in the middle of nowhere sometimes and am away from the car for 10-15 hours.
I really don't look forward to doing these mods again to a newer vehicle.
Modified by Ardfarkle at 11:08 PM 5/18/2004
I did a static vacuum advance test and confirmed the stator rotates smoothly throughout the vacuum range, however it doesn't move much, about 3/16". Is this about right?
Manually advancing the timing with a vacuum pump with the engine running yields about 6-7 degrees of advance.
Does anyone know where the mixture screw is on 87's. I've seen it shown as being on the bottom of the carburetor on some models.
And lastly, how big of a job is it to replace the transaxle 'axle' seals. Do they make an aftermarket fix-it kit
BTW, I'd drive this thing off a cliff if it weren't for the fact it runs so well, still gets great gas mileage, and is specially modified of one of my passions, photography. It has hidden chargers and DC outlets, dual isolated batteries hidden tool kits and survival stuff, and tons of physical mods to hide it all. I also have 1/8" steel plates under the car in critical areas to protect it from scrapes, rocks, etc. I also like the fact it looks ratty. I park out in the middle of nowhere sometimes and am away from the car for 10-15 hours.
I really don't look forward to doing these mods again to a newer vehicle.
Modified by Ardfarkle at 11:08 PM 5/18/2004
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Re: HELP!! - 87' Accord - NOx too high but passes HC and CO fine - EGR valve tested (Ardfarkle)
you should be a combat photographer in iraq with those steel skid-plates = *good* for mines & roadbombs. 
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