1. Ok guys in the continual build up of my GSR for time trials and racing, I have come to one of the last things to worry about. ABS brakes.

According to the SCCA GCR I need to disable it by disconnecting all the ABS sensors or I need to remove completely. Per NASA (Honda-Challenge) GCR I can keep the ABS if I would like. I have certainly gotten used to the ABS, but from what I have been told the GSR ABS is not worth it to keep active. The ITR maybe, but again I have to told "real racers do not want or use ABS."

What are other people doing on this issue?

2. What should I do about the doors. For everyone with power everything, do you replace the whole door with a non power intergra? (RS)


Modified by VTECAcuraGSR at 9:11 AM 3/22/2004

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by VTECAcuraGSR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">1. Ok guys in the continual build up of my GSR for time trials and racing, I have come to one of the last things to worry about. ABS brakes.

According to the SCCA GCR I need to disable it by disconnecting all the ABS sensors or I need to remove completely. Per NASA (Honda-Challenge) GCR I can keep the ABS if I would like. I have certainly gotten used to the ABS, but from what I have been told the GSR ABS is not worth it to keep active. The ITR maybe, but again I have to told "real racers do not want or use ABS."

What are other people doing on this issue?</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'd remove it. No point doing half your events with and half without - you'll never get used the car that way.


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">2. What should I do about the doors. For everyone with power everything, do you replace the whole door with a non power intergra? (RS) </TD></TR></TABLE>

Swapping to RS parts would be illegal for SCCA ITS. Gut the driver door per the GCR. Re-skin the interior of the passenger with sheet metal to make room for passenger-side door bars (again, per the GCR).

 

Maybe swapping the whole door is not legal, but couldn't you update/backdate to older style crank windows or manual mirrors?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by VTECAcuraGSR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Maybe swapping the whole door is not legal, but couldn't you update/backdate to older style crank windows or manual mirrors?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Why would you even want to do this? So you can add more lead? ITS min weight is 26XX. Just live with the rules. It is really not a big deal.

As for ABS, I must not be a real race drives because I like to have ABS. Allows you to brake deeper w/o worry of lockup. However, the 3-channel ABS on the older Integras is not that great for racing.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by VTECAcuraGSR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Maybe swapping the whole door is not legal, but couldn't you update/backdate to older style crank windows or manual mirrors?</TD></TR></TABLE>

No he couldn't. Not in ITS anyways. All the listed GSRs had electric windows (I think).

 

So do people think I should remove the ABS?

Karl or Scott any opinions?

 

if SCCA would allow you to keep it, i'd say keep it. but they don't, so get rid of it.

i like crack monkey's thinking of totally removing it so the car behaves the same all the time.

 

Go ahead and remove it. The guys at the tire trailer think you should.
--Chris, who no longer has ABS and has squared off 4 tires now.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by madhatter &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Go ahead and remove it. The guys at the tire trailer think you should.
--Chris, who no longer has ABS and has squared off 4 tires now.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah, it totally sucks that the GCR/ITCS requires removal/deactivation of ABS systems. But those are the rules. *shrug*

 

I would argue for leaving the parts there and simply disconnecting it for SCCA races. (See "square tires," above.)

K

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by VTECAcuraGSR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Maybe swapping the whole door is not legal, but couldn't you update/backdate to older style crank windows or manual mirrors?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Legality issues aside I would warn about removing too much weight..... If you are heading to DE days then no worry. In fact remove as much weight as you can since this make life much nicer for the brakes, tires, and lap times.

However, if you are headed towards ITS then you may want to check the weight of you car as it sits. I run a 96 in ITS and I can tell you I still have

- Power windows in both doors
- Electric locks
- Stock passenger seat
- Spare tire
- ABS actuator (mounted but disconnected) i.e.: ballast
- Air-conditioning compressor (mounted but disconnected) i.e.: ballast
- Full tank of fuel (race start)

With all of this, and more that I likely forgot to mention, I still use ~60 lbs ballast to make weight.

The GSR is classed very heavy in ITS.

Dave
#72 ITS GSR

 

Yea .. ITS min weight for the GSR blows. Bah.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by IP2GSR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> - ABS actuator (mounted but disconnected) i.e.: ballast</TD></TR></TABLE>

Have you just unplugged it or have you re-plumbed your lines to bypass the actuator? I am not liking the 3-channel ABS and an considering removing it.

SPiFF, who can run 2575# w/ ABS in H3.

 

ITS is where I am headed although there are still more DE's in my future.You are all right as far as the ballast goes, but ideally wouldn't you want to take all the non-required things out and then add balast to selected areas that will help with the wieght distribution and get the weight off the front tires?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by VTECAcuraGSR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">...but ideally wouldn't you want to take all the non-required things out and then add balast to selected areas that will help with the wieght distribution and get the weight off the front tires?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Sounds like juu need to buy Ye Olde Rule Book before you waste a bunch of time.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by VTECAcuraGSR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">but ideally wouldn't you want to take all the non-required things out and then add balast to selected areas that will help with the wieght distribution and get the weight off the front tires?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah, until you have reached the max amount of ballast...

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SPiFF &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Sounds like juu need to buy Ye Olde Rule Book before you waste a bunch of time. </TD></TR></TABLE>

But what if you cannot get Ye old rulebook?

 

For crying out loud! I just bought a rule book and read it front to back and I didn't see anything about having a max. amount of balast. Is it just me or is the GCR ordered poorly? I look in the IT section and it is only ~25 pgs long... So can someone please clarify this rule for me? Thanks!

 

LOL .. I think the SCCA should start teaching a class on how to read the rule book. I don't have one, but I do know that there is a max amount of ballast a car can carry and that it must be placed in the passenger floorboard within a certain area.

Therefore, if you strip your car bare only to find out you are 500# under weight, you will be SOL. Like IP2GSR said, most ITS GSRs are running lots of cage, spare tire, AC, kitchen sink, just to meet min weight.

 

definitely disable the ABS...and when you get the chance pull it out of the car. Just remember when you pull it out you have to re-route the brake lines and use a different master cylinder too....

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SPiFF &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yea .. ITS min weight for the GSR blows. Bah. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Yup! Since I also race in a Canadian series I have to remove 123 lbs for those weekends. Mind you at our local (short, twisty) track the car still does not too bad.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SPiFF &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Have you just unplugged it or have you re-plumbed your lines to bypass the actuator? I am not liking the 3-channel ABS and an considering removing it.

SPiFF, who can run 2575# w/ ABS in H3. </TD></TR></TABLE>

The system is re-plumbed with new lines and a brake bias adjustment to the rear.

Dave
#72 ITS GSR

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by VTECAcuraGSR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">For crying out loud! I just bought a rule book and read it front to back and I didn't see anything about having a max. amount of balast. Is it just me or is the GCR ordered poorly? I look in the IT section and it is only ~25 pgs long... So can someone please clarify this rule for me? Thanks!</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes, it is hard to find stuff in the GCR/ITCS.

Yes, there is a maximum amount of ballast (I think 100lbs) and it must be placed in the front passenger footwell.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by VTECAcuraGSR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">For crying out loud! I just bought a rule book and read it front to back and I didn't see anything about having a max. amount of balast. Is it just me or is the GCR ordered poorly? I look in the IT section and it is only ~25 pgs long... So can someone please clarify this rule for me? Thanks!</TD></TR></TABLE>


Yup!

From memory in section D.9. ?? with 100 lbs max. Located in the passenger foot well forward of OEM front passenger seat mounting location. There are some other restrictions but you get the idea.

It is certainly good to remove items and re-located the weight closer to the polar moment of inertia of the car. (Can't believe I used those words in a single sentence) But you are limited to 100 lbs max.
Could I move ~ 25 to 30 lbs of stuff and replace with ballast? Yup.
Should I? Yup.
Will I? There always seems like there is something else to do, Maybe some day.....


Dave
#72 ITS GSR