i'm looking for reliable info on fuel cell setup for a CRX Si running in ITA. the car is for long enduros. please feel free to PM with additional info...thanks

keep in mind i'm looking for reliable and good quality.

here is what i'm looking at:

cell: 20 gallon / maybe 18
pickups
check valves
fuel pumps / dual?
plumbing
install experience
mounting
filters, etc
reliable, can count on, A#1, will survive heavy damage, attracts the girls, and works like a horse.

i know there is alot of knowledge out there...help a brother out.

~Slacker J

 

Here is a question for you. Can you upsize that much from the original oem capacity per the SCCA rules?

I know that NASA doesn't allow you to start with more than the oem tank could hold. e.g. If I was to install an 20 gal cell, I would only be able to start an enduro with 11.9 gal. Since the regular classes only are allowed to put in 10 gals per stop after the race starts, the extra capacity wouldn't matter after that.

 

20 Gallons is a bad idea. It's too much weight. 15-16 gallons is perfect. At 20 gallons last year our lap times suffered 6-8 seconds a lap due to the unbalanced weight at full load for the first hour.

 

Sorry, if you decide to go with the dual pumps get the black collector box. Check valves is a must for quick fill. For both roll over protection and quick fill. The 2.5 ID inlet fill plate with a 2" vent will allow 2 gallons per second of fueling. Installation, a professional job will take 50-80 hours maybe more depending on your fab skills.

Please take measurements prior to purchasing your cell. I think 32" by 16.25 is the limit for integras and civics without trying to cut the sub-frame.

As far as mounting, try to get atleast a 5.25 clearance from the ground and then reinforce it with sheet metal even with a container. Also, give thought to low pressure drag with the cell's position.

Also, brake bais controlling with help thru the race handling with the differences in fuel load.

I highly recommend getting a a fuel safe fuel guage sensor package.

I hope this helps

 

i am debating a smaller cell so your input is appreciated. thanks for the info

~J

 

J
Just make sure you get the biggest or fastest way of refueling it! Remember moroso? We couldnt get the tank to suck fuel down any quicker!

goodluck with that
~Jonathan

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Littleton &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">20 Gallons is a bad idea. It's too much weight. 15-16 gallons is perfect. At 20 gallons last year our lap times suffered 6-8 seconds a lap due to the unbalanced weight at full load for the first hour. </TD></TR></TABLE>

One gallon of gas weighs ~5.7 lbs.

Even if you were 10 gallons overweight thats still only 57 lbs. I do not see how 57 lbs overweight is worth 6-8 seconds a lap.

 

that is why i'm looking for info on this before i buy. it looks like it will be a 17-18 gallon setup with all the fixins

thanks

~J

 

What sort of mpg does an ITA CRX get? 20 gallons could put you close to the typical 3 hour limit per driver at most SCCA enduros. No point having the gas if you have to do a driver change anyways.

 

with the 11.9 oe capacity we are getting between 1.5 - 2 hours depending on the track. with an 18 gallon that should put us just under the 3 hour limit...depending on driver. a few times a driver only got 45-55 minutes from a tank...ouch.

~J

 

The extra weight applied with the laws of physics on gravational pull squares the weight amount. Only one suspension setup can occur unless you have the on-demand suspension adjustments. I understand your point RJ but I'm taking the side of the drivers input. As one driver said driving at 22 gallons was "dangerous" compared to after one hour which he said "the car was controlling after the fuel load decreased"

 

This is a great thread, I was just talking to my crew chief for our shot at the 12 hour at summit about this exact issue. Does anybody know if the ITA rules allow us to add a 20 gal. cell. I ran a couple of short enduro's last year and it seems we were using about 7-8 gal an hour on our CRX/Si is that about average?

Is it really important to have two pumps or a surge tank. Years ago I ran a gt4 toyota that made about 75% more hp and although it was carb, we were able to run 1 fuel pump.

any information would be helpful, I know what it will take to fab this job and I want to be sure

Thanks

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Littleton &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The extra weight applied with the laws of physics on gravational pull squares the weight amount. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Eh?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Eh?</TD></TR></TABLE>


exakry...

57 lbs *is* the force of gravity. 57lbs of gas = 1.77 slugs (unit of MASS)

i guess you could say the extra gas changes the polar moment, but not by a whole lot... and it changes it for the better

 

Well you could toss 57 pounds of slugs in my hatch and i'm not sure i'd hardly notice the difference.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tom Blaney &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Is it really important to have two pumps or a surge tank. Years ago I ran a gt4 toyota that made about 75% more hp and although it was carb, we were able to run 1 fuel pump.

Thanks</TD></TR></TABLE>

It's not important to run the two pumps with a collector box or "black box". All this does is to ensure that all possible or total fuel can be used. Using the batwing collectors will do a good job however you run a possiblity of lossing power in the turns when the fuel load is light. The collector box prevents this by trapping all of the remaining fuel. Other possible idea's are to run four traditional collectors in the cell.

As far as my comments for the slower lap times on heavier fuel loads. The integra was cornered balanced and the suspension was adjusted on a 1 hour fuel load. At max fuel capacity, the car was reported by all three drivers to have massive amounts of oversteer at summit in turns 1, 3 & 10. For the first 30-45 minutes. After that the car became neutral once the fuel load deceased. I stated that laptimes were affected 6-8 laps. I stand by that because the ability to handle the car through traffic was affected as well. I failed to mention the traffic factor and I appoligize to those who thought these times were based on times without traffic during a race.

"Tom replied
Does anybody know if the ITA rules allow us to add a 20 gal. cell. I ran a couple of short enduro's last year and it seems we were using about 7-8 gal an hour on our CRX/Si is that about average?"

The 12 hrs at the point allows up to a 24 gallon fuel cell. GCR rules for the ITA fuel cell is in 17.1.4 in seciton 10.

Just trying to help. I'd be happy to share any additonal info if you IM me.

"RJ-
Even if you were 10 gallons overweight thats still only 57 lbs. I do not see how 57 lbs overweight is worth 6-8 seconds a lap."

Traffic, unbalanced car at the begining creating, suspension setup for fuel load creating oversteer contributed to those times. Or maybe the drivers that raced do not have the experience as others to adapt? The data for one driver: 142's to 136's for the first half hour (post-rain, dry line conditions, timing was collected manually (timing errors did occur)).

I hope this helps. I understand your point RJ but I'm just relaying information here. Maybe I should put you in the integra car to drive this year?