Hey Everyone,

My name is Daniele DeFranceschi, and I work for Federal-Mogul who makes many engine products like pistons, cams, bearings, lifters... I spacifically work in Seals and Gaskets.
I'm trying to get a feel if there is interest out their to manufacture low torque, teflon crankshaft seals for honda's, similar to the ones using in racing applications like F1, Champ cars, and even the low tech Nascar series. The idea is that by lowering the friction between the crank seals and the crank more power will go to the wheels where we want it. I'm a car junkie (That's why I belong to H-T, PreludeOnline, jeep board...) so I'm pushing to get Federal Mogul into more high performance aftermarket import applications. These teflon seals are primarily used on Heavy Duty, light truck and European anutomotive applications because of their increased life (3X) and reduced torque/Drag on the crank. All other OE's arn't willing to pay the increased cost yet. We actully already have all the tooling to make all the front and rear honda seals so cost wouldn't be very low. The cost would be around $15 for a front and $25 for a rear seal. Not much more than an OEM seal. As you know teflon is very expensive, and thus the price increase over a elastomeric seal.
It's a small upgrade, but it would be worth it if your building your engine. I can't supply dyno data, but i can get tourque test data if you guys would like and that will directly translate to the extra (saved) torque going to the wheels. You might be surprised how much drag an elastomeric seal has!

What's your opinions???

 

Interesting.....

I'd be interesting in such product. That's quite inexpensive for such an advantage. How long do these seals last compared to the OEM ones?

 

Increased life depends on the test we run... in the field we see about a 3 times the life. On test, we sometimes see over 20times the life. Rubber seals can not last long at a constant 8000rpm. Teflon seals can run that fast because there is reduced friction, and therfore there is reduced heat. Less heat means less or even no carbon buildup at the shaft/seal interface. Every seal has flutes or threads. Carbon plugs these threads eventully, an then it leaks. Also, Teflon wears much less than rubber, again due to the much lower coefficent of friction.

 

BTW, I'll have seals in my hand in 3-4 weeks.

Also, if you don't hear from me in the first week of November, I'll be in Japan for work. Woohooo!

 

awesome!....that you're gonna be in japan. never been there b4. how long you gonna be there?

 

from Nov. 3rd to Nov. 8th.

I'm pumped! I was their once before about 7 years ago. So cool!

 

From old torque tests I've been looking at with similar sized shafts, the average drop in torque required to rotate these seals is about 50in-oz. so for two seals, a drop of 100 in-oz or around .5ft-lb of torque. now at higher rmps this will increase. It will take a few weeks to get the data for these actual seals, but results should be the same. BTW, this seal was from a Toyota motor.

 

My interest is peaked, considering I have 1 project motor in the basement. And searching for 1 or 2 more. We have 1 Acura and 1 Honda in my house.

 

sounds good..........are there any downsides at all? It doesn't seem like it would cause any inconvenience or abnormal wear, etc.

 

no real downsides. one small one is that the instalation force is greater because it's a metal O.D. with sealant. But there's no concerns with that O.D. It's used all the time in the industry.