I need something to do with my spare time in the garage before the next track event. My last car didn’t have power steering so why do I need it now? It’s just extra weight. But really, is there any reason at all I would want to have power steering on a track car?

I have yet to really look into this. How much work is involved with the removal? Should I just save this for one of my winter project? When I get home I will start looking at my helms and under the hood to get an idea. Any info you guys can share with me would be great. Thanks

 

I'd just remove the belt. The weight, hassle and subsequent re-installation if you ever sell the car arent worth it. Especially when your car is heavy and you're still using street tires.

 

leave it on. really no reason to take it out other than to see the difference. if you do want to see what the difference is, just take the belt off like rj said for a session.

 

if you just take the belt off, steering forces will be VERY hard. To be able to drive the car, you'd want to remove the pump and cap the lines.

 

Ok, I will give that a try.. thanks. I guess the PS lines, pump, ect.. don't really weigh that much?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Greyout &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">if you just take the belt off, steering forces will be VERY hard</TD></TR></TABLE>

Only in the paddock...

 

I drove an RX-7 with the powersteering belt off, and it was scary to drive at all speeds. Felt like the wheel could be ripped out of my hand.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Greyout &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I drove an RX-7 with the powersteering belt off, and it was scary to drive at all speeds. Felt like the wheel could be ripped out of my hand.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Hondas are a bit more friendly than this to p/s belt removal.

 

Someone was selling a nice p/s removal kit for Hondas in the ITR forum.

It involves a closed loop and a breather tube to allow the fluid to flow within the rack still - so steering effort is easier than it would be with just the belt off.

Search is your friend.

 

I don't understand why there is a difference but my 4WS Prelude was really scary and twitchy without the PS. But I just had the belt removed and that car is a tank at over 2800 lbs. My GSR feels like it was built with no PS. It is great. This is one area I wish I knew more about the car. I have no idea what was done when PS was removed from my car. I just know there is no pump or lines there anymore. Hehe.

 

I believe strange engineering is coming out with an aftermarket steering column for performance. It might be for only off-road use only.

 

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=184202
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=462824
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=563114

IMO remove everything and install a breather. Only took me a couple hours to do, not that much of a hassel at all.

 

Okay - I'll bite...

Why? The ratio won't be any quicker. How many people do this just because it feels tough? Racing cars are supposed to be hard to drive right?

K

 

I muchly prefer P/S for autoxing, especially very low speed boxes and turns.

Manual rack is a different story, but pushing a P/S around manually sucks ***.

 

I wish this List was functioning on Sunday, I put a rebuilt D15B2 in my sister's '89 Civic sedan and started to freak when her 3 belt crank pulley (alt., A/C & PS) weas too big for the crank and I had to reuse the smaller ID pulley from the donor engine with no PS belt location. I did a frenzied search on Google looking for any number of options to bypass it and remove the pump and reservoir from the system but didn't want to make changes such that when/if we get the right pulley, we couldn't easily reinstall it.

What I found in my search was a bazillion references to mandatory use of Honda fluid, and a few places that said the Honda PS design basically bypasses the power system at speed so it has nearly no assist at anything but low speed. Since I couldn't find any place for sure that said how to reroute the lines without causing permanence, I just put it back on with no belt.

So what did it drive like? Just like my '89 CRX Si. Except for extreme low speed cranking the steering in a parking lot where I felt it was still fine, I'd swear that you wouldn't know something was wrong if you drove the car for the first time. Of course my wimpy armed sister noticed immediately when she backed up then pulled forward over a driveway shrub but this car is her daily driver and she is used to fingerstip control and realized a bit late that it wasn't there. I'm sure that she will adjust fine even if we never get the right pulley for it.

My suggestion is to simply remove the belt and see what the car is like. If it is very heavy then you know you need the belt. If it is light, then you can save the parasitic drag. If the car is a street car and the next owner would want the car complete, I see no reason to remove the 10 lbs of parts on a 2500+ lbs car. Not much of a weight savings to diminish the value of the car. You can't guarantee that prospective owners will share your same enthusiasm for a minor weight and power savings.

 

Just like Kirk said...Why?

Why would you want to put in more effort to steer/correct the car?

Notice that every major professional race series and teams have and allow power steering. They would do without it if it didn't provide benefits.
Less exertion on the drivers arm muscles leaves a little more energy for the muscle behind the eyes.

Rick

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by turfer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Just like Kirk said...Why?

Why would you want to put in more effort to steer/correct the car?</TD></TR></TABLE>

I am by no means an expert racer but here are my reasons. At 2575 with driver the GSR just does not feel like it needs P/S. Any accessory is going to cause some power loss even if it is minimal. I am not overly muscled but at 6'4" and 200 I don't exert enough steering effort at speed to even think about it. The only time I even notice that I don't have P/S is in the pits. Also, I don't like the feel of Honda P/S. In my street car I feel like I am driving a Cadillac. I can turn the steering wheel with my pinky at speed and I can't feel the road for crap. But I do know in my street car removing the P/S was not worth it and put it back on. On my lighter race car I love the feel. Who is it that says "it just feels right"?

 

on my CRX I did not have PS and I loved it, seems like the car gives more feedback that way, so I tried doing it on my EK hatch and it feel extremly heavy, it was NOT worth it, I only removed the belt, nevertheless I decided I will leave PS on it

 

I'm going to drain all the PS fluid and remove the belt. I will let you know how it drives after that. Not removing the fluid will make the steering harder because you have to force the fluid though the piston.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 57STS &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'm going to drain all the PS fluid and remove the belt. I will let you know how it drives after that. Not removing the fluid will make the steering harder because you have to force the fluid though the piston.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yup.

I drove around for two months with just the belt pulled, once I looped it and installed a breather it was much different. Still lots of feedback at speed, but parking and low speed situations is much much better.

 

Will the steering rack be damaged with no fluid in it at all if the belt is taken off?

And doesn't the VSS operate with PS fluid?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Greyout &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Will the steering rack be damaged with no fluid in it at all if the belt is taken off?

And doesn't the VSS operate with PS fluid?</TD></TR></TABLE>

You leave some fluid in to keep the rack lubricated, running low fluid will damage the rack over time.

Er.. the VSS is on the tranny, I imagine it uses tranny fluid?

 

No. Because the VSS is also resonsible for the level of power assist provided by the PS system, It has PS fluid running through it.

The VSS is labeled as POWER STEERING SENSOR, #8 in this drawing


In this drawing of the power steering lines, Clamps #42 and #48 attach two PS lines to the VSS, which is somewhat greyed out.


Although no one has ever said anything about the Speedo not working or a CEL, so I guess the speed reporting function and power assist governing function is completely seperate.

 

Hmm, looks like it does use PS fluid at some point. Where do those lines actually connect to the VSS, inside the tranny? Looking at the VSS from above, I only see one electronic clip to it. I will have to look closer for those perticular lines from the rack.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
so I guess the speed reporting function and power assist governing function is completely seperate.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Sounds right.

 

Damn im glad everyone has a such a strong opinion on this.
"leave it on, idiot. Why would you do such a stupid thing?!?!"

Hows aboot TIRE FEEDBACK.
I pulled the belt many-a-times on my civic and it feels absolutely great on track. It is doable on the street, but the car is my DD so I decided to put the belt back on. If it is a dedicated track car I wouldnt hesitate to remove the system, and install a tilton (or whatever) reservoir and loop the rack. Dont run a PS rack without any fluid though. If you really want, you can sop up some of the PS fluid with a paper towel but I honestly wouldnt bother with all of that at first. The fluid comes out quick as fawk if you start the engine and disconnect one of the lines and try to drain it that way. Im not saying I did something that stupid or anything...