Hello all, I've done all the research on Honda Tech to see what everyone has been saying with this set-up which is basically:

1. Get the latest revision, as they changed them to prevent slippage, and they also increased correction range +/-4 degrees of adjustment.
2. Torque and re-check them frequently so that they don't slip.
3. If you have the old, consider swapping out the hex nuts for bolts which will handle more torque, after all that what king (mugen) did to the skunks.
4. Something about revised ball-joint and some clip with it. Not sure the outcome, thou????????????
5. Group-buy seems to have best price

This information is great but what I can't seem to find answers about is:

1.) Does the kit come with replaceable ball joints, and what quality are the newer ones? What is the boot like on the ball joint, (is it like the acura one = positive seal with double clip)? What material is the skunk ball joint made with? Aluminum like K-mac which wear out overnight, or hardened steel like OEM acura with last almost forever.
2.) We know the trick with reversing the stock left and right side front upper control arms to get positve caster. Can the same be accomplished with flipping the Skunk arms as well?
3.) Pictures I've seen appear to show the skunk kit with the pivot mount bushings, and others do not show them included. What's the deal, in or out?

Would really appreciate your help honda-tech.

 

I saw a thread about this in the RR/autox forum..too bad I didn't pay much attention to it

j00 may wanna look there

AH-HA, found it. dunno how much help it is though, looks like you may wanna IM ghettoracer.

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=585361

 

The skunk2's come with ball joints.
the boots on mine ripped the first month. I just got a set of replacement ball joints from them that are supposed to alleviate this problem.

So right now my skunk2 camber kit has cost me $275

$195 camber kit
$80 new ball joints

 

That totally sucks mang, did you have the older version? If they failed, shouldn't they have covered it? What was the deal? Why did they rip, did they come loose.

 

I have the 3 degree version the one right before the current ones.
Skunk2 was no help. They told me to go to the place I bought them. I kept putting it off and by the time I got around to it the warranty was expired.
I have never had a problem with them slipping. I even have the allen head bolts they came with. The only problem I had was the allen heads hit the inside fender. So I used a grinder and took some material off the allen head.

 

That's too bad my friend. I would hope that any manufacturer would offer the newest rev at a huge discount when a defect issue arises with the old because of poor design.

I am still looking for more info on my questions above about pivot bushings, new boot style, ball joint material and swapping left and right for more camber. I will be calling skunk today to get more detail on this stuff hopefully.

So if I understand correctly, your ball joints wore out and skunk sells replacements for 80. Heck acura ones are only like 35 each.

 

No they did not ware out. I got the new ones because they changed the design of the ball joint and mount plate to fix the problem. They did admit there was a design flaw. They were $40 each.
There has been a few threads. About finding replacement ball joints before they became available from Skunk2. When I asked skunk where to get them they claimed not to know. I asked about the stock ones and they said they can be machined to fit. I guess the stock are bigger around and a new slot from the mount clip would also have to be machined.

 

is there any way to distinguish them by looking, which is what version?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by exzeltus &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">is there any way to distinguish them by looking, which is what version?</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

Yes, the metal is thicker around the sliding bolts, that and the latest rev has a ball joint where the metal is darker.

BTW I did call tech at skunk, got answers on my questions:

Yes, they are R&L specific, so if you do want more caster flip as many do with the OEM upper control arm.

Yes, the ball joint does have a rubber boot with metal clip to create a positive seal.

Yes, the ball joint has been revised and is more durable than the previous. The preceeding problem was not so much the ball joint wearing out, but rather it popping out of the sliding plate. They revised the latest to address this problem, and have used a different clip.

and finally Yes, pivot mount bushings are included, but only on the EK kit (96-00 civic) pn#516-05-0680. The 94-01 teg and 92-95 civic kits, (same) pn#516-05-670 do not.

I am still not completely sold yet, as I have been hearing many squawk about clearance. The clearance concern my lead me to the likes of spc's ball joint.

I like the spc ball joint, just not sure which range to get, the 67135 for -1.5 to +1.5 correction, or the 67330 for +1.5 to +3.0. I am lowered 2" Probably have to measure where I am at now with no kit and figure where I want to be. I would like to run about 2.0 to 2.4 negative camber up front which felt good in the past with the kmac kit I had which wore out. Running -1.7 in the rear with ingals smart arms.

HMMMM

 

Thanks for the post... I just recieved my skunk2 kit in the mail today, but i forgot to ask when i ordered which version it was. The part # on the box matches the part # you posted, but not having the old revision in front of me, how can i be sure i have the right one?

Which kits (sliding ball joint) can go upto -4* besides the skunk? I wasn't able to find any?

 

AFAIK, look for thicker metal around where the sliders are, that and metal where the ball joint is being a dark or blackish color. The clip should be on the bottom side of the slider bracket as well.

Don't know the answer to your other question.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by stegs &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">AFAIK, look for thicker metal around where the sliders are, that and metal where the ball joint is being a dark or blackish color. The clip should be on the bottom side of the slider bracket as well.

Don't know the answer to your other question.</TD></TR></TABLE>


I dont see a clip... a spring clamp for the boot is all. the top of the BJ is a dark color

ANyways, the #"s you posted were for the new model right&gt;?

 

You're cool, you got the latest

 

I've always been interested in buying the Skunk2 kit particularly since it is so much cheaper than their JDM counterparts but then again, I've wondered why they were so much cheaper.

Not jumping to conclusions, but I assume it is due to their balljoint design...which seems to have finally been rectified....

I think it would be great to have pics of the old Skunk2 arms vs. the new Skunk2s and a "popular" JDM brand as comparison....

for not taking pics of my friend's S2 arms before they went in.....dammit

 

What JDM couterpart, and what S2 arm?

 

For All You Guys... With Skunks2 an Worried About the Ball Joint Heres the Part Number for Poly Urethane Ball Joint Boots... think Black is sold so red the only one there one set does Upper an Lower Ball Joints Both sides I got on an they do not squeek so good luck to all 7. Bucks for a set Cheap

http://Go to <a href="http://store.s...m/...joint</a>

ENS-16-13101G Bushing, Front Ball Joint Boot Set, Acura/Honda, Black
ENS-16-13101R Bushing, Front Ball Joint Boot Set, Acura/Honda, Red

 

I wouldn't use those ball joint boots. There is no grove for the spring clip, like the oem boot, and will be susceptible for dirt sand and **** getting in there. They are for bling bling factor only!

 

I just ordered and received my Skunk2 (EK) front camber kit from GhettoRacer here on H-T. It cost me $180+ shipping and this is the NEW updated ball joint version. for GhettoRacer.

I just finished installing it tonight so here is a few pics of the kit.

Factory vs. Skunk2


I replaced the Allen key M6 bolts with Stainless M6 Hex bolts and star washers


Installed (swapped left to right for added caster) and ready for an alignment, I plan on bumping my negative camber up front to about -2.5. I just guessed at the settings for the install.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 6ghatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I replaced the Allen key M6 bolts with Stainless M6 Hex bolts and star washers</TD></TR></TABLE>

I suggest you use AN bolts and not the cheap grade 8 you get at the hardware store..... Nothing like breaking one of those at the track...

Make sure you use blue loctite. It will keep the bolts from loosening up and also protect from corrosion.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Ausmith &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I suggest you use AN bolts and not the cheap grade 8 you get at the hardware store..... Nothing like breaking one of those at the track...

Make sure you use blue loctite. It will keep the bolts from loosening up and also protect from corrosion.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Sorry, I forgot to mention that I did use blue loctite. Yes, they are grade 8 stainless bolts, I figured they would be fine. Have you heard of breaking issues with these?

 

does anyone have pics of the old rev and new side buy side ? or even just old and i can compare to the new pic posted by 6ghatch

 

yeah...i bought my kit about a year ago and it looks to be similar to the pics just posted -- any way to determine what version i recieved?

 

With the control arms swapped on a EK civic I'll get about 2.5 degrees of postive caster

Here is a quote from turnfast explaining the benifits of caster. Most racers here on H-T agree that on Civic's and Tegs it is a benifit, but on the Prelude it gives too much caster.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">A short dissertation on CASTER, the most misunderstood of the three front wheel alignment angles, with regard to production based roadrace cars.
Of the three main front wheel alignment angles, camber, caster, and toe, it is certain that caster is the most confusing and most subtle, and therefore the most misunderstood. This subject requires a working knowledge of racecar front end geometry as found in one of the many books available, some of the best of which are listed below.

Camber is the angle at which the top of the tire is tilted in, as viewed from the front of the car. As the front tires are turned left and right, the camber changes slightly because the pivoting points for the tire are not vertical as viewed from the side. If the car has positive caster, as most every racecar does, the topmost pivot is behind the lower pivot and this causes the tire to tilt in more at the top as the tire is steered inward. This small amount of negative camber gain is the most common reason for the popular misconception that a lot of caster is a good thing.

While it is true that most cars DO handle better with more caster than the factory spec, and many handle well with as much caster as possible within the limitations of the body structure, it is definitely a fallacy that "more is better".

The most confusing thing about too much caster is that the car can FEEL better, but actually be slower on the track. This is aggravated by the possibility that the car can feel so much better that the driver actually goes faster, even though the bumpsteer and corner weights are made worse. This occurence is the driver's problem for not going fast enough to begin with and there are books for that too.

Changing caster primarily affects four things, high speed stabilty, camber gain, bump steer characteristics and relative corner weights (wedge). There is no disagreement that high speed stability is a good thing, so extra caster is a plus there. Camber gain with extra caster just happens to be in the direction we want, more negative, so that's good too, however the amount is usually greatly overestimated as shown in the example below. Bump steer however is affected adversely, but this can be changed, however I have seen many racers get caught out by this one. Corner weights are the big problem with too much caster, as extra caster definitely affects an otherwise balanced racecar for the worse.

What occurs with extra ("too much") caster is that more and more weight is transferred off of the outside front and inside rear tires, while this may at first sound good because taking the load off the outside front CAN be good, the reality is that the outside rear tire will be doing too much work in the middle of the turn, so steps then taken to alleviate this will cause a corner entry push. Additionally, on any rear wheel drive car the inside rear tire will be light and won't come off the corners well. Remember we're talking about a well balanced car here, not a car where this extra caster covers up a sway bar or spring problem.

There's nothing like a good example so here are some actual numbers from the use of data acquisition, a set of electronic scales and an alignment machine. With caster + 3.5, camber -1.5,when the tires are turned 7 degrees as typical for sharp hairpin, the camber gain was 0.35 degrees (not much!) however the corner weights changed by 22 on just the outside rear tire. With caster +5.0, camber -1.5, and 7 degrees toe-in, the camber gain was 0.50 degrees (still not much), but the corner weight changed 35 lbs. on the outside rear tire, which is just too much. The most interesting item in these examples is actually how little the camber gain changed. This stuff applies equally to FWD and AWD cars, but for slightly different reasons.</TD></TR></TABLE>