Ok, I'll post for those who weren't there:

Setup:

AEM CAI
Toda Spec B's
Toda Valve Spring Set
Toda Gen II Cam gears
Apex-i VAFC

Stock header, cat, and exhaust

I put down 166 whp at 4k miles with just AEM.

I put down 164 with spec B's and safe settings for VAFC.

Where do I get the other ~20+ whp like this guy?
http://www.geocities.com/dynocenter/98R_BspecTodas.html

Ideas anyone?

I know I need a good header, but anything else? (Assuming I run open header)

 

The biggest changes will be noticed with a better flowing exhaust(header, cat/test pipe, and cat-back) and a retuned ECU...my dyno numbers showed(without tuning) little to no gain with the B's installed without a better flowing exhaust system, header is sitting at a shop waiting for installation.
Austin

 

who installed it. Is it running smoothly? maybe it could be off by a tooth. or the valve lash not set correctly. .2 mm. You can check it yourself by rotating the crank to tdc and checking that the cam gears line up. Then use a feeler gauge to check the valve lash.
When you are only puttin out those kinda numbers it has to make you think.
Even will all the tuning in the world you aren't going to get another 15 hp out of those. You shoudl be at least in the 170 range. Also make sure that your cam timing isn't off by too much.
It really does help if you get better flowing engine though. Cmon though, you are putting a lot more mixture into that engine, it should make more hp. Even with a limited exhaust.

 

Your post makes sense to me. I expected minimal gains, but a loss?

Different dyno, different day... But still?!

I expected 170's too...

Who knows?

I'll recheck the lash, but have checked and rechecked it and it is indeed .2mm...

Intake is at +2 and exhaust is at 0.

I'll check the timing again too...

Anyone else?

 

Header definitely. You need WAAY more airflow out of the motor. Scrap that beotch.

 

Ever take into consideration you are CHOKING your engine? Stock exhaust? Stock cat? Come on.
Also, the fact that your compression is still 10.6:1 doesn't help at all.

You should know this stuff. You've been on the board for a while.

But to answer your question as to why you lost power, it's because of your setup.
Get a nice header, no cat and straight through exhaust and tune it right and you will gain 20hp if not more.

 

Ditto................

 

Yeah Mike, I took that into account. But remember that the stock setup works really well for ~160 at the wheels... How is a tube going to be able to accept less air through it than it was before? And also remember what many of the senior members tell the newbies when they come here: very small gains from header or exhaust on stock cams...

BTW: do you have those jdm headers in stock yet? We talked last week, remember?

Ok, this is when we get into header theory and primaries vs. secondaries, etc... Granted, I am no expert so that's why I posted the question.

Also, I wanted others' opinions.

And lastly, I knew the stock header would be a bottleneck. I ordered a toda some time ago, but couldn't get it in time to dyno. So hey this is a learning experience. I haven't seen anyone else install B's with stock exhaust system and thought it might be interesting to see the effects. But I am surprised by the loss... I'll post the dyno's for comparison as soon as I scan them.

 

Ken - You have to remember that you're not only moving more air with the Spec B's, you're moving much more fuel. You car is likely running very, very rich at idle, which is why it chokes up and stalls. Probably is doing the same thing at high rpm, which is why your peak hp is lower than you're expecting. The engine is just loading up.

You might need to lean it out a bit more at idle. Also, run the fan on the first setting to help keep the rpm's up - that will help keep you from stalling all the time.

I know you're disappointed now, but it will come. Once you start fitting all the pieces together (more air in, big lumps, more air out), you'll be happy.

[edit] forgot to add -- Did you happen to stand near my car when it's warming up? All you smell is raw fuel. And my idle V-AFC settings are somewhere in the -30's.[/edit]


[Modified by itr009, 3:53 PM 7/16/2001]

 

you are moving more air
if you cant get the exhaust out then more spent gases are stuck in your
cylinders which means less fresh air which means less power

 

Remember that your engine, in essence, is an air pump. You are severely restricting yourself coming in and going out with your stock setup. Spec B's or any cam for that matter requires better flow all the way around. Right now, you are breathing through a straw....a crimped one, at that. Come on, open that baby up. Then you should be happy.

 

Pat, thanks for the IM earlier.

Steve, thanks for posting. I didn't even think about the air backing up to the intake side... Looking at the big picture makes things more clear.