I've been using hawk Bues for quite a while now but the price up here in toronto for them is not that great...like 240 canadian which is crazy.

Are the carbotech XP's a compareable pad...or better then the blues?

Are there any other pads that compare with blues...with a cheaper price

thanks

 

XPs are what you need... I Like the 1108 compound. They are very very similar(read "AS GOOD") and they are much more streetable, and less corrosive on your paint.

 

Is this pad a little too much for a Falken Azenis?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mike P. &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Is this pad a little too much for a Falken Azenis?</TD></TR></TABLE>

I used XP's + Falkens all last year no problems

 

Is this pad a little too much for a Falken Azenis?



I daily drive the 1108's on P700Z's with ZERO problems. Other than the NON-caustic dust down the side of my kar, these pads are the best thing since sliced bread. IMHO

They are very easy to modulate and have great cold bite.

 

You'll have an IM soon. We have a distributor in Toronto that pretty much handles all of Eastern Canada. He takes care of all the shipping, brokerage, and crap like that.

 

good stuff. I may have to try some out.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B18CXr &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> I daily drive the 1108's on P700Z's with ZERO problems. Other than the NON-caustic dust down the side of my kar, these pads are the best thing since sliced bread. IMHO

They are very easy to modulate and have great cold bite.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

They may stop the car well, as did my P+ pads. But I went through as much pad in 2 weeks of street driving as I did with 3 hours of track time.

 

I used Blues for years. Good pad. Then I got slaughtered under braking in my first Honda Challenge race by someone on XPs. I switched and now I wouldn't run anything else.

They have a bit of a different feel than a Blue on track. Like Jack said, the XPs modulate beautifully. I used to really dig the way Hawk Blues bite hard initially, but subsequently decided I like a very easily modulated pad much better.

 

cool thanks for the replies

 

They may stop the car well, as did my P+ pads. But I went through as much pad in 2 weeks of street driving as I did with 3 hours of track time

not sure what your doing but mine have 8,300ish street miles and one event on them......

 

Carbotech

1108 are great.

1109's will be the pad to have at Summit 7-5 & 7-6. Its gonna be HOT! My car had as good, if not better brakes on lap 27 as lap 1 (at Beaverun) . Using both 1108s and 1109s.

John- who doesn't worry about brakes only the bolts that hold the crap together.....

 

1109's are the *****! Thanks to John W for the heads up, and to Matt for getting them to me as promised.

 

uhm ok what are 1109's? I don't see those on the site??

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by smokin rubber &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

They may stop the car well, as did my P+ pads. But I went through as much pad in 2 weeks of street driving as I did with 3 hours of track time. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Carbotech P+ Pros:
Decent fade resistance
Good bite and release
Very consistent pad throughout the temperature range

Carbotech P+ Cons:
Very noisy pads especially when cold
Extremely dusty pad (complete "gunmetal finish" on wheels in a matter of days)
- I found that if you do not wax your wheels they do not come off easily
- The dust actually forms pits and permanent marks on your wheels if you leave them there too long on hot days. My OEM wheels are ruined.
Very harsh on your rotors. After one set of pads, the rotors were chewed by about 2-3 mm average.

Biggest complaint I have against the P+'s is their lifetime. I had 3 HPDE events (total of 6 hours) and 4,000 miles of careful city/highway driving with the P+'s over the span of 3 months and they were DONE. As in there was no more pad left.

If you think this is an anomaly, then consider that I called a representative at Carbotech to express my dissatisfaction and he told me that "That does seem a little low, but I would still be happy with that sort of performance." So if a Carbotech representative is not surprised and sees nothing wrong with that sort of lifetime out of the P+'s, then what does that tell you?

Conclusion: A pad with enough grip to use everyday and with enough fade resistance to take to HPDE's. However the noise and dust level is not tolerable for everyday street use nor is the fade resistance quite up to par as real race pads. The fact that they dissapear so quickly also is of concern. Overall this is a compromise pad. Better results will probably be afforded with using a strict street pad like OE Honda and a strict race pad like R4, HT-10 or GT-R Spec VR.
Overall Rating:
Value: Average at ~$100-120

Other prodcuts tried: R4S and OE Honda
Next pad I will try: Cobalt Friction GT-R Spec VR

~Nam

 

Disclaimer - I use Panther XPs, not Panther Plus, on my H3 race car.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by NammyBoy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Very harsh on your rotors. After one set of pads, the rotors were chewed by about 2-3 mm average.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Really? I've never had any problems with rotor wear while using Carbotech pads. Ever. Even years ago when I used P Plus'. "2-3 mm" sounds like fiction to me...you'd be close to wearing into the vents at those measurements. I respectfully ask you to take measurements and give us real data.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I had 3 HPDE events (total of 6 hours) and 4,000 miles of careful city/highway driving with the P+'s over the span of 3 months and they were DONE. As in there was no more pad left.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm surprised, but not too much. I've always held that you get two of the following three features in a brake pad...
- Fade resistance (at track temperatures)
- Rotor friendliness
- Durability

The Carbotech pads are the only ones I've used that ever got me close to all three. Now, granted...I pretty much don't care about dusting (it's a race car) or noise (it's a race car) at all. I get three or four race weekends. at least...out of a single set of Panther XPs.

So to get the "big three" you might have to give up something in durability. That said, I get three to four RACE weekends out of a set of Carbotech pads. I've never run them to backing plate.

Oh BTW...x weekends per set of pads is very dependant on what tracks you're driving. If you're at CMP or Sebring...then yeah, you'll trash the brakes regardless.

 

Nam, I believe you talked to me.

Pad wear: 3 track weekends is not what I would consider unreasonably bad wear. Particualrly if you are not running any cooling to the rotors/calipers. In the past, I have personally gotten 3-5 weekends on different sets of Panther Plus, depending on the severity of the circuits I drive. XPs generally last 2-3 weekends.

Rotor wear: One set of rotors, 11 track weekends, .5mm total of wear (measured with digital calipers). Rotors were thrown away due to cracks from the excessive number of heat cycles they underwent. I repeat: 11 track weekends. Zero point five mm wear. You want excessive rotor wear, try Blues.

Dust: I just recently left P+ on for 2 weeks, ~700 miles and 1 autocross. Even when driven in the rain and allowed to dry for days, the dust washed off with a brush and wheel cleaner. The cone marks were FAR more difficult to remove. You want corrosive dust, try Blues.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">then what does that tell you?

</TD></TR></TABLE>

It tells me you seem to value different things than our pads provide. Good luck in your pad search....

1109: new compound, racers only need apply. Final testing was perfomred in April. Info will be appearing soon on website.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">1109's are the *****! </TD></TR></TABLE>
I'm assuming they performed to your satisfaction? Glad to hear. Tell your co-workers to keep their hands off your **** next time, and don't give me a damn heart-attack...


Modified by MaddMatt at 8:54 PM 5/30/2003


Modified by MaddMatt at 9:57 PM 5/30/2003

 

What you are looking for does not exist. Unless you just want to use a more street friendly pad on the track and drive slower.

Use OE pads on the street and change them at the track if you are worried.

I left P+ dust on my wheels that had built up from a half-season of autocross on my car about 6 months after the season was over. A steam cleaner, simple green and some elbow grease got 95% of it off and the wheels are *not* ruined.

 

I raced all last season on one set of 1108's and had over 50% material left.


Overall rating:

 

I don't know how you can give the R4S a thumbs up. They suck *****.

Oh, and OEM's? Equally as horrid, if not worse.

Warren

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Wasn't the original poster after XP input?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yes.

 

I ran XP's at Lime Rock last month and they are the first pad I've used with the stock brakes that could have no fade in a 1/2 hour track session. Not very much wear on the pad and the rotors looked fairly good too. Some heat cracking, but they were not new, just lightly sanded to remove old material. I did not clean the wheels for about 2 weeks after, and they came out fine with just wheel cleaner and a little brushing.

As for Porterfield, I ran R-4's 2 years ago and they wear much faster and the ones I had were made with aluminum backing plates and boiled the brake fluid, even with ducts. I tried the R-4S for street and autox and found them better than stock but not great. Hard braking on cool brakes on a fast course with a turnaround on an airport course would give temporary fade like green fade in new pads.

How pads work can be very dependant on car and brake design. I mentioned the Porterfields because I used to run an '86 RX7 in CS and track schools and used the R-4S. Those ran 7 track days, 100+ autox runs, and 20K street miles on the same pads with the original 108K rotors on the car. Yet on the Integra they were unacceptable.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">made with aluminum backing plates</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Warren &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I don't know how you can give the R4S a thumbs up. They suck *****.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Totally agree... even my Miata killed a set in one weekend (At The Glen, not notoriously hard on brakes). I've always gotten AT LEAST 3 weekends out of any other pad (including CMP, which IS notoriously hard no brakes).

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mohudsolo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">How pads work can be very dependant on car and brake design.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Agreed. It's easy to forget that an Integra (Non-ITR) is basically a 170HP long wheelbase Civic with Civic-size brakes carrying around a bit of extra weight.