Race report: TCRA @ Big Willow August 24-25, 2002
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Race report: TCRA @ Big Willow August 24-25, 2002
Hey guys. Here's my race report from the TCRA under 2.2 liter Challenge last weekend.
TCRA Race Report
August 24-25 2002
TCRA 2.2 liter Challenge Cup
Willow Springs International Raceway
Michelangelo/Area 51/Hytech Integra (NASCAR-style name convention
)
We had a good weekend. Not too many changes to the car this time. I've been trying to hold down the budget, so I've been putting off a lot of purchases that I would like to make until later.
The only change for this weekend on my car was the Sites Racing splitter, which Andy Sites had made for me. There has been some interest on the boards on this, so I have taken pictures. The splitter fits pretty well aside from some grinding that I needed to do at the back edges in order to get it around the ends of the bumper. I don't know if this is due to my bumper not being quite straight, or if that's just how it is. I used eight Dzus fasteners to attach it to the edge of the stock bumper cover. Through some mistake, my undertray was made of ABS plastic, which quite heavy and flexible, so I decided to use aluminum angle stock riveted and bolted to the top surface to provide the necessary stiffness. The normal material is apparently expanded PVC. It turned out to work quite well, so whatever my next undertray is made of, I'll probably supplement it structurally with a similar setup. I painted the splitter Krylon white and clear coated it.
Then there is the loose ball joint that I found in the left front. I ordered a couple of new ones from King Motorsports, but they say they won't get any for a while. Hopefully, I won't get any catastrophic failures before then....
Saturday
We got to the track and unloaded the car. I attached the splitter and adjusted the initial tire pressures. The first few runs on Saturday morning were quite scary. For those who have not driven it, Willow is very fast, and contains lots of sweeping turns in 4th or 5th gear. Aero really counts. I left the setup of the car as it is without the splitter just so that I could get a baseline of how it behaved. As I went out for the first couple of laps of the day, the car oversteered quite strongly on turn one if I was not resolutely on the gas. There was also a nasty vibration coming from one of the rear wheels, so I came back in out of fear that some lug nuts might be loose or something.
After coming in, we checked the lug nuts and found nothing wrong. More likely the vibration is coming from a bad balance job of one of the wheels. I then cranked up the rear wing angle significantly. My co-driver Richard Michelangelo went out for his run, and ran his session quite fast. Looks like the wing angle change was in the ballpark and working, and so after that, I concentrated on working out tire pressures.
My car runs Toyo RA-1s, and as I adjusted pressures after each run, it seemed as if our final pressures were going to be different than what we normally run. It was clear that the splitter was working...doing something. However, after finding my preferred setup again, the car was very close to how it was before, only subtly different in handling.
Something disturbing was that a few times in the middle of turns, my engine suddenly lost power as if VTEC was dying. However, the oil pressure was good, around 60 psi, and it happened very rarely and not in the same place twice. Richard said he did not experience any such thing.
The qualifying race was pretty fun. We pre-qualified on pole based on our practice lap times, and it was clear that Shawn Bota in the second grid position would be our toughest competition.
Well, I have no experience in drag racing, and it was clear this weekend that this really hurts me on our standing starts. Basically, Shawn got the jump on me while I spun my wheels. Through the remainder if the qualifying race, I ended up chasing him most of the way, until he slowed down after a little more than half the race. His car had lost its oil cap, and was spitting nasty fumes and oil at me. Afterwards, my windshield was coated with stuff. But we won, meaning we had pole for the next day.
Right after the race, Richard went out for another practice run and the car died at pit lane exit. !!! After the car was pushed back to the pits, Sy and Richard worked on diagnosing the problem. It was clearly electrical, and we concentrated on the distributor and ignitor.
That evening, Richard and Sy returned to the shop to pick up a distributor from another B18C that he had sitting in the shop, and the two of them would return to the track in the morning.
Sunday
Sunday morning I arrived to find Sy and Richard's heads buried under the hood. They were busy replacing the ignitor; hopefully, that would fix the problem, but nothing is for sure with these intermittent failures.
Practice continued uneventfully the rest of the morning. I dropped the front pressures a little more for additional grip in turn 9. Doing double duty all weekend, the Toyos were pretty worn, and I think they only have about 1 weekend or less left on them. The fronts were brand new and shaved before the last event at California Speedway, so I guess this is the equivalent of six track days on them.
The final race was intense. I was mindful of my terrible starts but it was too late to practice, so when the time came, I decided that bogging was better than spinning. Still Shawn once again got the best of me by 5 car lengths as we went into turn one, but I was able to catch up as my tires came up to temp.
I continued to chase Shawn each lap until finally getting past in turn one. But then a lap later, TRAFFIC! I was trapped behind a group of spec Miatas, and watched helplessly as Shawn quickly came right up behind and was able to get a good launch down the back straight passing me where I was caught off line going around a Miata. I gave chase through turn 8, and then more TRAFFIC! This time, it was Shawn that was hung up, and I was able to make my way past were I stayed until the end. Luck goes both ways!
Later it turned out that Shawn had broken a weld in one of his fabricated control arms in the rear. I looked under the car. Hey, those are nice! I didn't know he had those! Shawn's car is pretty trick, much more than mine, I suspect! Well, hopefully, all secrets will be revealed in SCC soon.
Anyway, it was a good race, and Shawn has definitely become a pretty good driver in the past few years since we started in time trials.
What next? Well, my current financial situation precludes anything drastic, so I will have to concentrate on fixing the little things. Believe it or not, buying this used race car was not a plug and play operation. There were dozens of things wrong with it, but we have been fixing the bugs one by one with some much appreciated help from Area 51 and Michelangelo Motorwerkes. The Hytech engine and header have also continued to operate without a hitch.
The next event is California Speedway on September 21-22. With luck, we should make it.
You can see all of the pictures, plus a couple of QuickTime movies at:
http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4291442983
[Modified by Gansan, 5:23 PM 8/30/2002]
TCRA Race Report
August 24-25 2002
TCRA 2.2 liter Challenge Cup
Willow Springs International Raceway
Michelangelo/Area 51/Hytech Integra (NASCAR-style name convention
) We had a good weekend. Not too many changes to the car this time. I've been trying to hold down the budget, so I've been putting off a lot of purchases that I would like to make until later.
The only change for this weekend on my car was the Sites Racing splitter, which Andy Sites had made for me. There has been some interest on the boards on this, so I have taken pictures. The splitter fits pretty well aside from some grinding that I needed to do at the back edges in order to get it around the ends of the bumper. I don't know if this is due to my bumper not being quite straight, or if that's just how it is. I used eight Dzus fasteners to attach it to the edge of the stock bumper cover. Through some mistake, my undertray was made of ABS plastic, which quite heavy and flexible, so I decided to use aluminum angle stock riveted and bolted to the top surface to provide the necessary stiffness. The normal material is apparently expanded PVC. It turned out to work quite well, so whatever my next undertray is made of, I'll probably supplement it structurally with a similar setup. I painted the splitter Krylon white and clear coated it.
Then there is the loose ball joint that I found in the left front. I ordered a couple of new ones from King Motorsports, but they say they won't get any for a while. Hopefully, I won't get any catastrophic failures before then....
Saturday
We got to the track and unloaded the car. I attached the splitter and adjusted the initial tire pressures. The first few runs on Saturday morning were quite scary. For those who have not driven it, Willow is very fast, and contains lots of sweeping turns in 4th or 5th gear. Aero really counts. I left the setup of the car as it is without the splitter just so that I could get a baseline of how it behaved. As I went out for the first couple of laps of the day, the car oversteered quite strongly on turn one if I was not resolutely on the gas. There was also a nasty vibration coming from one of the rear wheels, so I came back in out of fear that some lug nuts might be loose or something.
After coming in, we checked the lug nuts and found nothing wrong. More likely the vibration is coming from a bad balance job of one of the wheels. I then cranked up the rear wing angle significantly. My co-driver Richard Michelangelo went out for his run, and ran his session quite fast. Looks like the wing angle change was in the ballpark and working, and so after that, I concentrated on working out tire pressures.
My car runs Toyo RA-1s, and as I adjusted pressures after each run, it seemed as if our final pressures were going to be different than what we normally run. It was clear that the splitter was working...doing something. However, after finding my preferred setup again, the car was very close to how it was before, only subtly different in handling.
Something disturbing was that a few times in the middle of turns, my engine suddenly lost power as if VTEC was dying. However, the oil pressure was good, around 60 psi, and it happened very rarely and not in the same place twice. Richard said he did not experience any such thing.
The qualifying race was pretty fun. We pre-qualified on pole based on our practice lap times, and it was clear that Shawn Bota in the second grid position would be our toughest competition.
Well, I have no experience in drag racing, and it was clear this weekend that this really hurts me on our standing starts. Basically, Shawn got the jump on me while I spun my wheels. Through the remainder if the qualifying race, I ended up chasing him most of the way, until he slowed down after a little more than half the race. His car had lost its oil cap, and was spitting nasty fumes and oil at me. Afterwards, my windshield was coated with stuff. But we won, meaning we had pole for the next day.
Right after the race, Richard went out for another practice run and the car died at pit lane exit. !!! After the car was pushed back to the pits, Sy and Richard worked on diagnosing the problem. It was clearly electrical, and we concentrated on the distributor and ignitor.
That evening, Richard and Sy returned to the shop to pick up a distributor from another B18C that he had sitting in the shop, and the two of them would return to the track in the morning.
Sunday
Sunday morning I arrived to find Sy and Richard's heads buried under the hood. They were busy replacing the ignitor; hopefully, that would fix the problem, but nothing is for sure with these intermittent failures.
Practice continued uneventfully the rest of the morning. I dropped the front pressures a little more for additional grip in turn 9. Doing double duty all weekend, the Toyos were pretty worn, and I think they only have about 1 weekend or less left on them. The fronts were brand new and shaved before the last event at California Speedway, so I guess this is the equivalent of six track days on them.
The final race was intense. I was mindful of my terrible starts but it was too late to practice, so when the time came, I decided that bogging was better than spinning. Still Shawn once again got the best of me by 5 car lengths as we went into turn one, but I was able to catch up as my tires came up to temp.
I continued to chase Shawn each lap until finally getting past in turn one. But then a lap later, TRAFFIC! I was trapped behind a group of spec Miatas, and watched helplessly as Shawn quickly came right up behind and was able to get a good launch down the back straight passing me where I was caught off line going around a Miata. I gave chase through turn 8, and then more TRAFFIC! This time, it was Shawn that was hung up, and I was able to make my way past were I stayed until the end. Luck goes both ways!
Later it turned out that Shawn had broken a weld in one of his fabricated control arms in the rear. I looked under the car. Hey, those are nice! I didn't know he had those! Shawn's car is pretty trick, much more than mine, I suspect! Well, hopefully, all secrets will be revealed in SCC soon.
Anyway, it was a good race, and Shawn has definitely become a pretty good driver in the past few years since we started in time trials.
What next? Well, my current financial situation precludes anything drastic, so I will have to concentrate on fixing the little things. Believe it or not, buying this used race car was not a plug and play operation. There were dozens of things wrong with it, but we have been fixing the bugs one by one with some much appreciated help from Area 51 and Michelangelo Motorwerkes. The Hytech engine and header have also continued to operate without a hitch.
The next event is California Speedway on September 21-22. With luck, we should make it.
You can see all of the pictures, plus a couple of QuickTime movies at:
http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4291442983
[Modified by Gansan, 5:23 PM 8/30/2002]
Honda-Tech Member
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From: Snowwhitepillowformybigfathead
Re: Race report: TCRA @ Big Willow August 24-25, 2002 (Gansan)
Thanks for the report Glen - Congratulations on your wins.
Scott, who really digs that Sites Racing splitter setup.....
Scott, who really digs that Sites Racing splitter setup.....
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From: EXIT Real World
Re: Race report: TCRA @ Big Willow August 24-25, 2002 (Gansan)
Good win Glen.
All Honda, all the time
Coincidentally, the top 4 front runners all used 15" Volk Racing rims. They must be good.
All Honda, all the time
Coincidentally, the top 4 front runners all used 15" Volk Racing rims. They must be good.
Joined: Nov 2001
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Re: Race report: TCRA @ Big Willow August 24-25, 2002 (Mario)
Does that wing cause alot of lost mph? Seems like it would cause alot of drag.
Good stuff i always enjoy seeing pics of race cars 
to you
[Modified by IM ALL SHO, 6:33 AM 8/31/2002]
Good stuff
i always enjoy seeing pics of race cars to you[Modified by IM ALL SHO, 6:33 AM 8/31/2002]
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From: Santa Rosa
Re: Race report: TCRA @ Big Willow August 24-25, 2002 (IM ALL SHO)
Does that wing cause alot of lost mph? Seems like it would cause alot of drag.
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Re: Race report: TCRA @ Big Willow August 24-25, 2002 (ghettoRacer)
good report! what times did you guys turn?
Frank: I don't have the lap charts, but in practice we were running in the low 1:34s consistently with the occasional dip into 1:33. Give us a cold day and I'm sure all of us could go a second faster.
SHO: The wing is definitely necessary once you add a splitter. The splitter itself adds a small bit of drag as well, but only around 1-2% according to one book. I don't know how much straight line speed we are losing.
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Re: Race report: TCRA @ Big Willow August 24-25, 2002 (Chris)
Yes it does. But the benefit of an increase in downforce, far out wheighs the detriment of an increase in drag.
hopefully im not backwards, still feel shitty after i realize i shouldnt have added a part to the 911 post
Hmmm either way the cars look nice
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Re: Race report: TCRA @ Big Willow August 24-25, 2002 (IM ALL SHO)
Nothing warms my heart more than seeing these cars on the track. No posing, no riceboys, it's the real thing. I salute you gentlemen. Nothing gets me ranting more than posts about adding expensive, non-fuctional, ricer, accessaries where the only concern is if the guy's friends will think it's cool - never mind in 99% of the cases it make the car SLOWER.
Good job!!! When my car project is done (see sig) I'll be there too.
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Re: Race report: TCRA @ Big Willow August 24-25, 2002 (kb58)
"Something disturbing was that a few times in the middle of turns, my engine suddenly lost power as if VTEC was dying. However, the oil pressure was good, around 60 psi, and it happened very rarely and not in the same place twice."
Warning... topic shift...
I have a theory that oil starvation is much more common than people think. The way modified Honda's are used, in dragracing, autocross, and big track events, I think there is a *real* chance people are getting air bubbles. Take the case of drag racing. Even a stock Honda on sticky tires can probably pull better than 1.0G for an instant right after dropping the clutch. If so, the oil in the pan assumes greater than (due to inertia) 45deg angle. Just how many g's can be pulled before a bubble enters?
The situation is the same for track events. Take turn 2 at Willow, a huge constant radius turn (like a big skidpad.) The oil in the pan is near 45 deg for a long time, and the returning oil is having a hard time returning to the pan, due to being stuck to the side of the block. Take 45 deg, add additional sloshing on top of that, add low oil level in the pan because of the oil stuck above, and I wonder if it's on the edge of trouble.
Anyway, I've been wondering what happens when an air bubble gets ingested. I think the bubble will get compressed immediately up to the same pressure as the oil. If true, it means no oil pressure guage will see a dip - it can't tell the difference between 60psi oil and 60psi air.
It's just a theory at this point, but I'm *this* close to bitting the bullet and putting in a dry sump in my project car...
I also suspect that the "UR ultralight crank pulley" fiaso *may* be related to oil starvation. What makes me think this is how everyone says the bearings have progressively worse damage the closer they get to crank journal #1. But that's also where the oil pump output enters the system. If a bubble enters the system, which bearing will have the most damage? #1. But that's a separate topic.
Unfortunately the only way to study this is for someone to add a dry sump system and see of all these problems go away. Anyone running a dry sump?
Warning... topic shift...
I have a theory that oil starvation is much more common than people think. The way modified Honda's are used, in dragracing, autocross, and big track events, I think there is a *real* chance people are getting air bubbles. Take the case of drag racing. Even a stock Honda on sticky tires can probably pull better than 1.0G for an instant right after dropping the clutch. If so, the oil in the pan assumes greater than (due to inertia) 45deg angle. Just how many g's can be pulled before a bubble enters?
The situation is the same for track events. Take turn 2 at Willow, a huge constant radius turn (like a big skidpad.) The oil in the pan is near 45 deg for a long time, and the returning oil is having a hard time returning to the pan, due to being stuck to the side of the block. Take 45 deg, add additional sloshing on top of that, add low oil level in the pan because of the oil stuck above, and I wonder if it's on the edge of trouble.
Anyway, I've been wondering what happens when an air bubble gets ingested. I think the bubble will get compressed immediately up to the same pressure as the oil. If true, it means no oil pressure guage will see a dip - it can't tell the difference between 60psi oil and 60psi air.
It's just a theory at this point, but I'm *this* close to bitting the bullet and putting in a dry sump in my project car...
I also suspect that the "UR ultralight crank pulley" fiaso *may* be related to oil starvation. What makes me think this is how everyone says the bearings have progressively worse damage the closer they get to crank journal #1. But that's also where the oil pump output enters the system. If a bubble enters the system, which bearing will have the most damage? #1. But that's a separate topic.
Unfortunately the only way to study this is for someone to add a dry sump system and see of all these problems go away. Anyone running a dry sump?
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From: at last finally back to sweet home, sunny north cali, usa
Re: Race report: TCRA @ Big Willow August 24-25, 2002 (kb58)
i'm fancying a s2k powered lotus 7 replica... 30k turn key. 1100 lbs, 240 hp bone stock. eats vipers and corners way better. but your mini sounds like a one off beast, and should give that new m3 powered mini a run for the money.
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Re: Race report: TCRA @ Big Willow August 24-25, 2002 (ghettoRacer)
Thanks. I think I've seen that site. Do they also have a Hyabusa sportbike engine as an option (for the car you mentioned?) I gotta do something with that drivetrain myself one of these days...
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From: San Diego, CA
Re: Race report: TCRA @ Big Willow August 24-25, 2002 (kb58)
Warning... topic shift...
I have a theory that oil starvation is much more common than people think. The way modified Honda's are used, in dragracing, autocross, and big track events, I think there is a *real* chance people are getting air bubbles. Take the case of drag racing. Even a stock Honda on sticky tires can probably pull better than 1.0G for an instant right after dropping the clutch. If so, the oil in the pan assumes greater than (due to inertia) 45deg angle. Just how many g's can be pulled before a bubble enters?
The situation is the same for track events. Take turn 2 at Willow, a huge constant radius turn (like a big skidpad.) The oil in the pan is near 45 deg for a long time, and the returning oil is having a hard time returning to the pan, due to being stuck to the side of the block. Take 45 deg, add additional sloshing on top of that, add low oil level in the pan because of the oil stuck above, and I wonder if it's on the edge of trouble.
Anyway, I've been wondering what happens when an air bubble gets ingested. I think the bubble will get compressed immediately up to the same pressure as the oil. If true, it means no oil pressure guage will see a dip - it can't tell the difference between 60psi oil and 60psi air.
It's just a theory at this point, but I'm *this* close to bitting the bullet and putting in a dry sump in my project car...
I also suspect that the "UR ultralight crank pulley" fiaso *may* be related to oil starvation. What makes me think this is how everyone says the bearings have progressively worse damage the closer they get to crank journal #1. But that's also where the oil pump output enters the system. If a bubble enters the system, which bearing will have the most damage? #1. But that's a separate topic.
Unfortunately the only way to study this is for someone to add a dry sump system and see of all these problems go away. Anyone running a dry sump?
Can an oil pump pump air as efficiently as oil, leading to the same pressure? Personally, I don't know. However, I can see what you are saying if a bubble is in the oil line with oil before and after, it will be compressed to the same pressure. The question is if the oil pump is able to pump air well enough to introduce a significant bubble. What if you run the pump with no oil? Does it pump air through the engine?
Also, what about when that big bubble gets to the oil spray bar or the crank journal, or whatever. The air will jet out quite easily compared to the viscous oil. Wouldn't this lower the pressure as measured by the gauge?
As for my situation, I don't think it was an oil starvation problem in the end. Replacing the ignitor caused the problem to go away for the rest of the day, fortunately.
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