Like the title asks. Of course I hear different things about this when asking different guys at Auto-X so I thought I'd ask here.

I hear that it's good and bad, so which is it?

Personally I've already got stiffer springs in the rear than up front and I'd rather get a bigger rear bar (from 14mm to 22mm) to stiffen up the rear, but some say then I'll "pick up the inside wheel" and that it is not a good thing.

Although I see plenty of awesome handling cars doing this, so why would it be bad?

Thanks in advance.

 

Well, your four tires are your only connection to the road, so lifting one takes away 25% of your total traction capacity, technically. However, the rears on most hondas are just "along for the ride" anyway, so it probably isn't *that* big a deal. I'll wait for one of the guys who actually knows what they're doing to chime in though

 

heehee, yeah I know, that's why I said "technically" I've seen some porsches at a PCA autocross lift their fronts--those were some ANGRY porsches!

 

Oh I understand that it's a common occurence, and before a few weeks ago Ithought it was just accepted and often embraced until some older guys at the Auto-X told me that it was bad. Hell I know the VW guys disconnect the front swaybar JUST so they can lift the rear inside wheel, right?

Why would they even say that then?

...And I've seen some of the RWD cars picking up front wheels and it looks scary.

 

I pick up my inside front in the E30. It's cool because it's under acceleration. Everything's more fun under acceleration

Re: inside rear. Yeah, it's normal on these cars.

Warren

 

get the rear bar and lift the **** out of that rear wheel

the contact patch of the inside rear wheel is so small when cornering hard it doesnt matter anyway

22mm bar and sticky tires = dog pissing all day long

you may want to put a 21 or 22m up front though , 22 out back and nothing up front may be alittle "scary"

 

Having the inside rear wheel lifted makes the car more twitchy and sensitive to slight bumps. Oversteer is good, but only up to a certain point and is predictable.

I don't agree with the idea of the rear wheels on a FF Honda car are just there to drag along. It is important to improve the overall traction - all wheels on the ground as much as possible.

 

When you pick up the inside rear, it's not like you suddenly lose 25% of your traction. That wheel was becoming less and less useful as you laid into the corner.
Of course, the more contact you can maintain, the more you'll be able to stick. By the time you lift a leg, you've rolled too much. Roll stiffness helps with that. Ironically, it can also hurt. But now I'm getting in over my head!

Dan

 

Less rubber equals less traction... stiffen that suspension!

 

Well you have to keep the gas tank from dragging on the ground somehow.

Warren

 

well, to go fast around a corner in a honda it will be on 3 wheels regardless if you agree or not. sorry.

 

We run 850# rear springs and a heavy rear sway bar...but the Civic is a flexi-flyer and you arent doing it right if you arent lifting the inside rear wheel.

 

I'll add mine.... This is what fast looks like in a Honda

 

Not on the ones that I've seen and rode in. sorry.

 

Racing against a guy like Wai would be such a yawn. He'd never figure out why you were beating him so bad, but at least he'd be so far back that you'd never have to find out if he is an idiot behind the wheel too.

Scott, who wonders why he never heard the story of how Wai skooled Bob Endicott at the Expo.....that King car is really screwed up you know......

 

I tried the JDM spring setup, and didn't like it. It's either understeer all over the place, or it's super sensitive to track changes.

Of course, if you're only going 9/10th's you'll never notice.

btw - Pete's (NASA Racer) been racing since before I was born. Karts, cars, whatever people will let him drive w/ 4 wheels.

Warren

 

At SP the 92-95 bodies were 3-wheeling best through turn 1. Jack, Chad, and Lionel mainly. Lionel was actually on 3 from the entrance until the apex, very good stuff.

 

I got a picture too, but I can't bring in the image, so here's the link: http://www.bayareaprelude.com/cgi-bi...ct=ST;f=7;t=14
I'm the 4th gen, #101.

Dan

 

I don't see you point, but like I would care anyway.

I was lifting the inside rear pretty badly on stock suspension. My friend watched my sessions and was afraid that I was gonna tip the car over. After I upgraded the suspension the problem was well improved. My time went from 1'43"22 to 1'40"XX (with a new header also) on a 1.88 mile road course. I was not capable of rolling Bob E, but I was able to pass a few racers here on HT. But due to the different setups on different cars, I don't see why I should go around and tell stories of how I "skooled" them. I don't need ego boost.

 

I disagree. I was pretty quick in class at Summit Point with all 4 wheels touching the ground. Maybe someone can correct me if I am wrong but everyone I talked to said I was not lifting an inside wheel. Even on turn 1. Granted, my Integra is really damn stiff, very well balanced and the H&R coilover setup seems to work very well.

Chris


[Modified by chrisb, 2:12 PM 7/8/2002]

 

The point is that you are determined to fail to understand how your car works, and that many of us cannot allow you to post uncontested misinformation.

Scott, who admires Wai's modesty.......but not his intellect....

 

Ok. So I take back my uncontested misinformation of having all 4 tires on the ground is good.
Hey Scott maybe you should "invent" your own way of setting up a race car so it only rides on 2 wheels in corners. That would sure kick some ***!

 

You stayed planted well, with the minor exception being those spins Ever figure out what the problem was?

 

Even your sarcasm betrays your ignorance. On an FWD 4 is too many, and 2 is not enough - in general mode (I suppose I should say that if I had to pick two though that I'd pick the front two).

How many times do you have to be told that any weight on the inside rear is weight that could have been on the inside front? I have 800F / 1100R and a huge rear bar, and my biggest problem is understeer. Anyone who drives one of these cars hard enough winds up with the same problem. Those that don't don't.

Scott, who seriously wonders how Wai got an engineering degree....or did he?...


[Modified by RR98ITR, 11:32 AM 7/8/2002]

 

I got a solution SLOW DOWN. go slow and the wheel won't lift.

I have gotten faster and faster this last year. I've tweeked the suspension and gotten better tire's. All of which has led to the rear wheel coming off the ground. It just happens. It's even kinda funny. And it's not like that wheel does a whole lot around a corner. Also I don't use a rear sway bar. If I did it would lift even more.


But since someone told you it's bad your gonna go with that. Alright by me.

Guess those porsches that can't keep there front wheel on the ground should get off the track also.