Okay, so first off, yes I'm insane and I just bought a 2005 S2K a couple days ago -- it was just too good of a deal to pass up! There is one last HPDE at my local race track this weekend, and I can't believe I'm even considering it, but I'm having strong urges. I've driven one SM race, and I drove the Aerial Atom at VIR at the ITR Expo, but that is *it* for my RWD experience. All my track/racing has been in FWD platforms. So needless to say, I've been ultra-cautious on the street (ahem, as of course you should be!) as I have no idea what the limits of this car are. I'm dying to get to a track where I can find out. I think I'll learn more about the S2K with a day on track even only driving 6 or 7/10th's than all winter driving on the street.

So my questions- most importantly, how is the stock S2K brake system? And by that, I mean the entire system, not just the pads. The reason I ask is that ever since I took the track virginity from my ITR over 5 years ago (and 70K miles), the brakes have *never* been as tight, fresh feeling, and responsive as they were originally. Granted I've done a lot of track days and I've gone through numerous new pads, rotors, and flushed brake fluid a half-dozen times, but if I recall, the fresh feeling was gone even after the very 1st event. They still work well, just a spongy feeling pedal. I don't want to take my shiny-new-thing S2K and rape the brakes in the first week I've owned it if they're not going to be more resilient than the ITR's were. And maybe there's just something I've just never done "right" or there is a secret for getting that fresh factory feel back, I don't know.

Lastly- how are the stock Bridgestone RE050's? It would appear the fronts on this car have been replaced semi-recently, but the backs have not. Which, is confusing to me since the car only has 16K miles on it and I don't think it was driven hard, but of course have no way of knowing for sure. Anyway, I would say by looking they have less than 6 months of every day driving left on them, if that. So maybe that should keep me off the track alone, but I would of course be taking it easy regardless.

Thoughts?

 

H1 S2Ks have incredible brakes, and other than pads/rotors, I believe they are all stock. I don't know this from personal experience, only what I've gather talking/watching the H1 racers.

 

Hey Ben, I've driven many S2000's in anger and with the stock tires the stock brakes are fine. If you upgrade to race tires then you will need better front pads. The AP2 have a softer suspension than the AP1 and tend to understeer towards the limit. You will have an absolute ball with that car. Did you sell your Civic?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by uncleben &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ever since I took the track virginity from my ITR over 5 years ago (and 70K miles), the brakes have *never* been as tight, fresh feeling, and responsive as they were originally. Granted I've done a lot of track days and I've gone through numerous new pads, rotors, and flushed brake fluid a half-dozen times, but if I recall, the fresh feeling was gone even after the very 1st event. They still work well, just a spongy feeling pedal.</TD></TR></TABLE>

The brakes on my ITR work fine, same now after 6K actual track miles as my first track event in it. No spongy feeling pedal at all. &lt; shrug &gt;

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by uncleben &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">how are the stock Bridgestone RE050's?</TD></TR></TABLE>

It's an excellent all-around street tire - you know, a top-of-the-line street tire designed for a balance of excellent dry traction, excellent wet traction, and fairly long treadlife. For best track performance, you can get a second set of wheels and slap on some good R compounds. For better track performance using the same tires you drive on the street, you could switch to the Falken Azenis RT-615, Bridgestone Potenza RE-01R, or one of the similar tires just now hitting the market (Dunlop Z1, Kumho XS, Toyo R1R); they probably won't last nearly as many miles, though. All of which is the same as with most other cars.

 

David- thanks, I think I'm going to just go as-is and take it easy. No, I haven't sold the Civic yet unfortunately. Someone is coming to look at it in a couple weeks though, so maybe I'll get lucky. Then I'm going to think about what to do with the ITR.. mwahaha

Ken- hmm, well I wonder what the deal is then? Someone suggested on rr-ax that possibly my problem was that the calipers seals were shot. Is your pedal feel instant? As in, you lightly touch the pedal and you're getting braking feedback?

I don't think I'll hit the track but a couple times a year (sure, I say that now) so not sure if I'll do a dedicated set of track wheels/tires like I have for the R or not. I may check out those Azenis. Gee, I guess I'm going to have to get used to paying for low profile 17" tires now... it's been so nice buying cheap 205/50x15's for so long!

 

Ben, for your ITR, do you have SS lines? It definitely helps.
And if you could find a shop with a device to bleed the ABS system, it would help a LOT. Mark (mstewar) had brake pedal feel issues with his ex-H2 car. He replaced EVERYTHING front and rear to no avail. Then he found some place that can bleed the ABS system and it fixed his problem. Maybe you could look into that.

Stock S2K brakes are very very strong. I'm not too sure if it is prone to spongy feel problem, but for the ones I've driven on track, they have been excellent.

The only things that one might want to improve would probably be modulation and more fluid capacity offered by multipiston calipers. But it really isn't necessary.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by uncleben &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Ken- hmm, well I wonder what the deal is then? Someone suggested on rr-ax that possibly my problem was that the calipers seals were shot. Is your pedal feel instant? As in, you lightly touch the pedal and you're getting braking feedback?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yup, instant pedal feel, no sponginess. &lt; shrug &gt;

I know some people talk about stainless steel lines as the cure for sponginess, and maybe if your brake lines are really old, that will help (although then, so will replacement rubber lines ). All I can tell you is that the only times I've ever experienced a spongy pedal (in any of my cars) have been due to air in the lines, either from inadequate bleeding when flushing, or from boiling the fluid (before I started using Motul).

 

stock hardware is fine.

stock pads are not.

I use XP10s on the front on my MY00 with RT615. As long as you bleed before hitting the track every event, u should be ok. If you can build a brake ducting system to keep the temps down, you'll last the whole day.

The only reason I'd even consider BBK is for unsprung weight issues, not performance.