THE TURBO THREAD - Boost for Noobies!
02-16-2007, 09:20 PM
#1
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Thread Starter
THE TURBO THREAD - Boost for Noobies!
Those of you who KNOW what you're talking about, feel free to add more, but its time to write the the big turbo thread.
First and formost, if its on Ebay, leave it there.
Moving along, You need, at the minimum, the following parts. I'm skipping all the potential short cuts/ghetto management. This is what you need to do it right.
<U>Manifolds</U>
T25 Footed
HKS Cast Iron Log
TSI
T3 Footed
Dezod (numerous variations)
SFP - discontinued
Stafford Fab - discontinued
.... or you can have a shop make you anything you want.
<U>A Turbo that matches one of the above manifold feet</U>
Popular choices:
T25
Garrett T25, T25 ball bearing, T28, T28 Ball bearing, GT25R (2554R), GT28R (2560R or 2854R)
T3
T3 Super 60
T3/T4b
GT28RS w/ T31 exhaust housing
.... need some help here, I dont know em all
Use of Mitsubishi Turbos
IF you want to use a 14b or 16g turbo, you'll need a DSM turbo flange. Its not the same as a standard T25 flange. There are adapter flanges out there, but your best bet is to just have a shop build you a manifold with a DSM flange welded onto it.
USE AN OIL RESTRICTOR - almost any turbo you use will need an oil restrictor to keep the pressure from blowing the seals out.
<U>Wastegate</U>
Most T25s are internally gated, you'll need an actuator if the turbo doesn't come with one, and you'll need to make sure the spring is capable of managing the level of boost you want to run.
If the turbo is not internally wastegated, then you need an External gate. By far, the most popular choice, and for good reason, is the Tial 38mm wastegate. Just find one.
If you want to run some level of boost that you cant get a spring for, you'll need a boost controller, either manual or electronic. Both have their merits and disadvantages, choose the one that suits your needs.
<U>Intercooler</U>
They come in a wide variety of shapes and sizes. Most people will opt for a front mount, with both the inlet and outlet pointing to the passenger side of the car. It makes the pipes easier to run.
Dezod makes/made a couple of them, Stafford Fab made one that fits deciently if you can still find one, a lot of people just get em custom made to fit the car. The universal ICs you can buy with an end tank on each side set up for cross the car airflow will fit, you'll need to get the pipes worked out somehow so that you can either clear the AC compressor, or go back to the right side of the car with the left end tank. Greddy and Revhard both make "up and over" intercoolers for the RSX, it requires removing the crash bar, but if you reverse the IC, they will work too.
As far as the charge pipes, I've yet to see a "kit" that actually fits. Your best bet is dropping the car off and having the piping made for the car.
<U>Blow off Valve</U>
The options are limitless. You can use the Bosch valves that come stock on VW/Audi, Porsche, Saab and Volvos, they're $35 bucks and work fine. The all but the porsche valve will hold about 8 or 9 psi, the Porsche valve will hold about 12. I also recommend the porsche valve because it has a brass plunger, not a rubber one. The other end of the spectrum, I'm sure there's a $500 BOV out there that does the same thing. All the ones in between are fine, make a variety of noises when they open. Pick one, just make sure the spring is the right rate for the car. Some are measured by idle vacuum, others are rated by boost pressure.
<U>Downpipe/Dumptube</U>
The turbo's exhaust pipe. If you buy a kit, you get one, if you build a kit, then you'll need to make/have one made. They're not universal, it needs to match the manifold, and it needs to match the turbo so the length is right.
If you have an external WG, then you'll need a dump tube, these can just be vented directly to the atmosphere by running a pipe towards the ground, or they can be incorporated back into the downpipe and run out the back. Use a flex pipe in the dumptube if you add it into the main DP.
<U>Fuel and Management</U>
At the very least, RSX injectors, an E-manage with the Emanage pressure sensor and a wideband O2 sensor.
RSX injectors drop right in, you just have to extend the rail studs, and the e-manage is good enough to run everything. There's also a piggyback called PCS XFC, and for going all out, the AEM EMS. There's not much it cant do.
You can also use Hondata Kpro with the modified cam gear. I know first hand that its the wonderbox.
On the gas end, if you want more than what the RSX 310cc injectors can dish out, RC or Precision make injectors for plenty more power. You'll probably also have to do a fuel system return line conversion and pick up a walbro 255 fuel pump.
<U>Hoses, lines, etc</U>
You need an oil feed, either a -3 or -4 AN line for the turbo's oil supply and then a -10 line from the turbo drain back to the oil pan. I highly recommend WELDING the fitting to the pan to keep it from leaking.
If the turbo is water cooled, you'll need coolant lines for the turbo.
You need a bunch of couplers and clamps for the IC pipes.
Grab a K&N filter. Make sure you get a GOOD, QUALITY filter. Turbos suck really hard when they spool, they've been known to eat those cheapo filters.
As far as gauges, I think at the minimum, a Boost gauge, oil pressure and wideband O2 readout is what you need. Anything else is nice and good to have, but you ought to have those 3 for sure.
<U>PCV system </U>
Lose the valve in the back of the block. Get a 1/4 BSPT nipple from mcmaster carr and route the line to a catch can. If you leave the valve in, it shuts under boost and the crank case pressurizes. That pressure will find another way out..... usually through the oil pan gasket or the main seals. Either plug the port in the IM or use that port as one of your vacuum sources.
<U>Kits</U>
TSI and Dezod are the only 2 currently available that I know of. I'm not making judgements on either.
I think I got most of it.... if I missed it, I'll add it later as I think of it. This is not intended to be a DIY in anyway. I'm still of the mindset that if you want to boost the car, you ought to be smart enough to figure out how to do it, these are merely basic suggestions and guidelines to start with, and all this stuff is D17 related. If you're boosting a K, your best bet is the RSX/EP3 forum for K series info.
I left the whole part about engine building out, Supermex wrote a pretty good thread on that.
As far as whatever anyone else wants to add, whatever's boost related, setup specs, etc.... but in view of the picture thread up top... unless its a technical picture, I'd leave it out. We all know what cars look like with intercoolers hanging out of the bumper, keep it 56K friendly.
Modified by Boilermaker1 at 10:02 AM 2/17/2007
Modified by Boilermaker1 at 4:03 PM 2/17/2007
Modified by Boilermaker1 at 1:15 PM 3/6/2008
First and formost, if its on Ebay, leave it there.
Moving along, You need, at the minimum, the following parts. I'm skipping all the potential short cuts/ghetto management. This is what you need to do it right.
<U>Manifolds</U>
T25 Footed
HKS Cast Iron Log
TSI
T3 Footed
Dezod (numerous variations)
SFP - discontinued
Stafford Fab - discontinued
.... or you can have a shop make you anything you want.
<U>A Turbo that matches one of the above manifold feet</U>
Popular choices:
T25
Garrett T25, T25 ball bearing, T28, T28 Ball bearing, GT25R (2554R), GT28R (2560R or 2854R)
T3
T3 Super 60
T3/T4b
GT28RS w/ T31 exhaust housing
.... need some help here, I dont know em all
Use of Mitsubishi Turbos
IF you want to use a 14b or 16g turbo, you'll need a DSM turbo flange. Its not the same as a standard T25 flange. There are adapter flanges out there, but your best bet is to just have a shop build you a manifold with a DSM flange welded onto it.
USE AN OIL RESTRICTOR - almost any turbo you use will need an oil restrictor to keep the pressure from blowing the seals out.
<U>Wastegate</U>
Most T25s are internally gated, you'll need an actuator if the turbo doesn't come with one, and you'll need to make sure the spring is capable of managing the level of boost you want to run.
If the turbo is not internally wastegated, then you need an External gate. By far, the most popular choice, and for good reason, is the Tial 38mm wastegate. Just find one.
If you want to run some level of boost that you cant get a spring for, you'll need a boost controller, either manual or electronic. Both have their merits and disadvantages, choose the one that suits your needs.
<U>Intercooler</U>
They come in a wide variety of shapes and sizes. Most people will opt for a front mount, with both the inlet and outlet pointing to the passenger side of the car. It makes the pipes easier to run.
Dezod makes/made a couple of them, Stafford Fab made one that fits deciently if you can still find one, a lot of people just get em custom made to fit the car. The universal ICs you can buy with an end tank on each side set up for cross the car airflow will fit, you'll need to get the pipes worked out somehow so that you can either clear the AC compressor, or go back to the right side of the car with the left end tank. Greddy and Revhard both make "up and over" intercoolers for the RSX, it requires removing the crash bar, but if you reverse the IC, they will work too.
As far as the charge pipes, I've yet to see a "kit" that actually fits. Your best bet is dropping the car off and having the piping made for the car.
<U>Blow off Valve</U>
The options are limitless. You can use the Bosch valves that come stock on VW/Audi, Porsche, Saab and Volvos, they're $35 bucks and work fine. The all but the porsche valve will hold about 8 or 9 psi, the Porsche valve will hold about 12. I also recommend the porsche valve because it has a brass plunger, not a rubber one. The other end of the spectrum, I'm sure there's a $500 BOV out there that does the same thing. All the ones in between are fine, make a variety of noises when they open. Pick one, just make sure the spring is the right rate for the car. Some are measured by idle vacuum, others are rated by boost pressure.
<U>Downpipe/Dumptube</U>
The turbo's exhaust pipe. If you buy a kit, you get one, if you build a kit, then you'll need to make/have one made. They're not universal, it needs to match the manifold, and it needs to match the turbo so the length is right.
If you have an external WG, then you'll need a dump tube, these can just be vented directly to the atmosphere by running a pipe towards the ground, or they can be incorporated back into the downpipe and run out the back. Use a flex pipe in the dumptube if you add it into the main DP.
<U>Fuel and Management</U>
At the very least, RSX injectors, an E-manage with the Emanage pressure sensor and a wideband O2 sensor.
RSX injectors drop right in, you just have to extend the rail studs, and the e-manage is good enough to run everything. There's also a piggyback called PCS XFC, and for going all out, the AEM EMS. There's not much it cant do.
You can also use Hondata Kpro with the modified cam gear. I know first hand that its the wonderbox.
On the gas end, if you want more than what the RSX 310cc injectors can dish out, RC or Precision make injectors for plenty more power. You'll probably also have to do a fuel system return line conversion and pick up a walbro 255 fuel pump.
<U>Hoses, lines, etc</U>
You need an oil feed, either a -3 or -4 AN line for the turbo's oil supply and then a -10 line from the turbo drain back to the oil pan. I highly recommend WELDING the fitting to the pan to keep it from leaking.
If the turbo is water cooled, you'll need coolant lines for the turbo.
You need a bunch of couplers and clamps for the IC pipes.
Grab a K&N filter. Make sure you get a GOOD, QUALITY filter. Turbos suck really hard when they spool, they've been known to eat those cheapo filters.
As far as gauges, I think at the minimum, a Boost gauge, oil pressure and wideband O2 readout is what you need. Anything else is nice and good to have, but you ought to have those 3 for sure.
<U>PCV system </U>
Lose the valve in the back of the block. Get a 1/4 BSPT nipple from mcmaster carr and route the line to a catch can. If you leave the valve in, it shuts under boost and the crank case pressurizes. That pressure will find another way out..... usually through the oil pan gasket or the main seals. Either plug the port in the IM or use that port as one of your vacuum sources.
<U>Kits</U>
TSI and Dezod are the only 2 currently available that I know of. I'm not making judgements on either.
I think I got most of it.... if I missed it, I'll add it later as I think of it. This is not intended to be a DIY in anyway. I'm still of the mindset that if you want to boost the car, you ought to be smart enough to figure out how to do it, these are merely basic suggestions and guidelines to start with, and all this stuff is D17 related. If you're boosting a K, your best bet is the RSX/EP3 forum for K series info.
I left the whole part about engine building out, Supermex wrote a pretty good thread on that.
As far as whatever anyone else wants to add, whatever's boost related, setup specs, etc.... but in view of the picture thread up top... unless its a technical picture, I'd leave it out. We all know what cars look like with intercoolers hanging out of the bumper, keep it 56K friendly.
Modified by Boilermaker1 at 10:02 AM 2/17/2007
Modified by Boilermaker1 at 4:03 PM 2/17/2007
Modified by Boilermaker1 at 1:15 PM 3/6/2008
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02-18-2007, 01:14 PM
#9
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There's also another thread but its about general boosting, not EM2/ES1 speacific.
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread/1024174
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread/1024174
02-19-2007, 04:19 AM
#10
great thread, i learned first hand about the PCV...i ignored it and now i have to replace my oil pan gasket. Restrictor? yea, lol. I figured 'how much pressure can really build up if im going from a 1/8th NPT port to a tiny adapter and a 3AN hose? apparently enough to start an oil leak at the turbo. these are small things that need to be addressed at the time of install! great post justin.
01-31-2008, 07:41 AM
#11
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Re: (skipbarber)
nice write up man. Im really thinking about going F/I on my Daily Driver with a k20a3. How do you feel about the turbo "kit" type of things like the greddy and hks kits? Ps go to Purdue boilermaker?
01-31-2008, 07:44 AM
#12
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Re: (MJOLNIRvTEC)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MJOLNIRvTEC »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">nice write up man. Im really thinking about going F/I on my Daily Driver with a k20a3. How do you feel about the turbo "kit" type of things like the greddy and hks kits? Ps go to Purdue boilermaker?</TD></TR></TABLE>
He's from DC so i doubt it.
He's from DC so i doubt it.
01-31-2008, 07:58 AM
#13
Honda-Tech Member
he moved to DC. he went to college at Purdue, hence the nickname boilermaker 
as for FI on a k20a3, any kit works in all honesty. look at what goals you want and go from there. just dont expect 300whp without beefing up your internals or your looking at crankwalk
as for FI on a k20a3, any kit works in all honesty. look at what goals you want and go from there. just dont expect 300whp without beefing up your internals or your looking at crankwalk
01-31-2008, 08:02 AM
#14
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Re: (Curiouz_G)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Curiouz_G »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">he moved to DC. he went to college at Purdue, hence the nickname boilermaker
as for FI on a k20a3, any kit works in all honesty. look at what goals you want and go from there. just dont expect 300whp without beefing up your internals or your looking at crankwalk</TD></TR></TABLE>
gotcha. my grandparents used to live in lafayette dont know much about the area tho
as for FI on a k20a3, any kit works in all honesty. look at what goals you want and go from there. just dont expect 300whp without beefing up your internals or your looking at crankwalk</TD></TR></TABLE>
gotcha. my grandparents used to live in lafayette dont know much about the area tho
02-01-2008, 10:36 PM
#16
Honda-Tech Member
yes there are. look at supermex and andyman on http://www.7thgencivic.com (or now civicforums.com). There was also this guy by the sn of turboengner(i think thats how you spell it) that boosted above 14PSI. Im not too sure.
02-02-2008, 09:46 AM
#17
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Re: (Curiouz_G)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Curiouz_G »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">yes there are. look at supermex and andyman on http://www.7thgencivic.com (or now civicforums.com). There was also this guy by the sn of turboengner(i think thats how you spell it) that boosted above 14PSI. Im not too sure. </TD></TR></TABLE>
not 14psi.
a 14b is a stock eclipse turbo. TDO5H-14b I think is the full thing. I havent seen anyone do it as of yet. Its a small pea shooter of a turbo.
not 14psi.
a 14b is a stock eclipse turbo. TDO5H-14b I think is the full thing. I havent seen anyone do it as of yet. Its a small pea shooter of a turbo.
05-25-2008, 11:13 AM
#20
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you can pass it with a piggyback, i know that for a fact... or atleast here in VA. if you have kpro or AEM EMS, then i think your **** outta luck unless you know someone
05-26-2008, 03:31 PM
#21
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A newb askin about boost again
A few questions here, are there turbo kits offered that have everything needed to boost a 100 percent stock d17? if so which ones?, like the ones on dezod? also im just looking to increase power a little, i dont need a lot hp, i just wanted a reliable increase, 175-200hp, would be awsome. I know KSWAP!, but i think thats too much of an investment, i wuda bought a used car with a k already in it if i wanted to drop 6-8 grand in my 8 grand civic. Lastly, any recomendations and complete turbo kits? or is there no way to turbo this car on stock internals reliably. I heard 5-6 psi was the safe range, but many of you being big motor heads dont mind the occasional blown head, i cant afford to have **** like that happening occasionaly.
05-26-2008, 08:39 PM
#22
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If you cant live with problems, dont bother, its inevitable. As far as the price.... you're gonna spend a good 6K by the time its done right, so if thats your deal, I wouldnt bother....
05-27-2008, 02:33 PM
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Re: (Boilermaker1)
thanks man for an honest answer. it seems after market boost isn't for me then. I guess i'll have to settle with some suspension mods and call it a day untill i can either afford a k-swap or another car.
06-01-2008, 07:57 PM
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TSI turbo kit vs. Dezod turbo kit, any reviews?
I was looking at the kits at turbo-kits.com, wondering whats better as it would seem they are the only kits available.