Rooftop voter

iTrader: (1)

Hi, I was just wondering which would be faster if the LS was vtec but unbuilt with a redline of 6.5-6.8 or a b18c1 stock?

Rooftop voter

iTrader: (1)

Anybody?

Dunc

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Rooftop voter &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Hi, I was just wondering which would be faster if the LS was vtec but unbuilt with a redline of 6.5-6.8 or a b18c1 stock? </TD></TR></TABLE>

The GSR would be faster. If you build the LS to the same specs as a GSR then it would be a toss up and a very good race. There is a lot more to a properly done LS/VTEC setup than just putting on a vtec head.

Rooftop voter

iTrader: (1)

Yeah, I know, I was just wondering considering the diferance in torque, and then letting the b18b breath a little easier, I figured it would get a lot closer if not beat it.

Dunc

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Rooftop voter &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yeah, I know, I was just wondering considering the diferance in torque, and then letting the b18b breath a little easier, I figured it would get a lot closer if not beat it.</TD></TR></TABLE>

There might be slightly more torque, but nothing that can be constituted as astounding*. You might keep up a little better, but the GSR will be faster.

doood

iTrader: (1)

with a rev limit that low you'd be shifting just as it's getting to the sweet spot of the powerband

Rooftop voter

iTrader: (1)

I'm no expert, but wouldn't you be able to adjust VTEC engagement to kick in at a lower rpm as to be in vtec longer to make up for the lower redline?

doood

iTrader: (1)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Rooftop voter &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'm no expert, but wouldn't you be able to adjust VTEC engagement to kick in at a lower rpm as to be in vtec longer to make up for the lower redline?</TD></TR></TABLE>

it's not as simple as that. vtec x-over would be determined by the cams being used. most like them at 5k+. engage it too early and you could lose power.

Dunc

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by doood &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

it's not as simple as that. vtec x-over would be determined by the cams being used. most like them at 5k+. engage it too early and you could lose power.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Exactly. Just because you're in vtec does not mean you are making more or less power. If you engage vtec at like 1000rpm then you will have less power but on the other hand if you engage it at 7000rpm then you'll have way too little power.

But if you do get gains by going earlier, they would be small gains again.

Rooftop voter

iTrader: (1)

Well, I'm turbo right now, but I want to hit the 300 whp mark and I'm just trying to figure out what I need to do. The thing is, I don't have the cash to build the entire engine up right now, so I wanted to know how effective a set up would be only revving to 7k MAX. I am on a stock exhaust right now, and pushing 200 whp and 189 torque at 10 psi. I hoped that with a new exhaust, new tune and a vtec head I would be able to hit anywhere between 265-300 mark. That's were I want to stay, so if I'm able to get there on a stock block I'll be happy. I just don't want to be beat by every turbo GSR out there you know. Any suggestions, or does anybody know anyone who will do an entire build for 1,500.00 if I supply all the parts of course? Near Ohio?

Dunc

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Rooftop voter &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Well, I'm turbo right now, but I want to hit the 300 whp mark and I'm just trying to figure out what I need to do. The thing is, I don't have the cash to build the entire engine up right now, so I wanted to know how effective a set up would be only revving to 7k MAX. I am on a stock exhaust right now, and pushing 200 whp and 189 torque at 10 psi. I hoped that with a new exhaust, new tune and a vtec head I would be able to hit anywhere between 265-300 mark. That's were I want to stay, so if I'm able to get there on a stock block I'll be happy. I just don't want to be beat by every turbo GSR out there you know. Any suggestions, or does anybody know anyone who will do an entire build for 1,500.00 if I supply all the parts of course? Near Ohio?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Oh yea, if you get a 3" exhaust and retune it then I would think you could be around 250 with the vtec head on the stock block. What size turbo do you have? When you say entire build are you refering to rods/pistons/etc or something else?

Rooftop voter

iTrader: (1)

I was thinking about a 2.5 inch exhaust. When I said fully built I meant pistons, rods, and so on. I have been reading about guys on stock LS blocks on 9 psi cranking out 250 whp, that's why I was hoping for around 265-300 with the vtec head. I'd prefer to build up the motor, but I just don't have the 2-3k it will cost in labor.

Dunc

Try giving Slomotion a call. They are local to you in Columbus.

Rooftop voter

iTrader: (1)

Yeah, I talked to them about something else a little while ago. I thought about asking them, but I figured they'd charge a whole lot for a full build, since I talked to autoexotica and they said they wouldn't even do the whole build, just the head swap. I call them. Any good reviews about them?

qwk db8

the geezer is so smooth /to a rough as ls vtec that wasint done right . get the gsr it will not have the low end power but ull have fun with the vtec

Dunc

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by qwk db8 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the geezer is so smooth /to a rough as ls vtec that wasint done right . get the gsr it will not have the low end power but ull have fun with the vtec </TD></TR></TABLE>

Or you can just do an ls/vtec and call it a day haha. As long as it is done correctly, you'll have no problems with it.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Rooftop voter &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yeah, I talked to them about something else a little while ago. I thought about asking them, but I figured they'd charge a whole lot for a full build, since I talked to autoexotica and they said they wouldn't even do the whole build, just the head swap. I call them. Any good reviews about them? </TD></TR></TABLE>

Yea from what I hear they are fairly reputable. I've never had any experience with them personally though. I'm not sure how much they charge but I help out at a shop here in Dayton from time to time, Colletti Motorsports. You can call and ask him for a price.

Colletti Motorsports
http://www.collettimotorsports.com
(937) 294-1533

The only other shop I have dealt with is Performance Clinic here in Dayton as well. They did the 1st build of mine and they pulled the motor/installed pistons & rods/reinstalled motor and such for around 700. They are also very professional and get it done in a timely manner. Call them too and ask for a price.

Performance Clinic
http://www.performanceclinic.net/
(937) 426-3247

SiR99

Theres some WRONG information on this page. An unbuilt LS/VTEC meaning you used stock head and stock bottom end will be FASTER then a stock GSR. An LS/VTEC puts down around the same whp as a type R motor (around 165whp), but its not as reliable.

Also there is absolutely no point in making an LS/VTEC motor and limiting it to 6.8rpm. The only reason you would build an LS/VTEC is so that you can rev up to ~8200rpm and make max power.

Dunc

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SiR99 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Theres some WRONG information on this page. An unbuilt LS/VTEC meaning you used stock head and stock bottom end will be FASTER then a stock GSR. An LS/VTEC puts down around the same whp as a type R motor (around 165whp), but its not as reliable.

Also there is absolutely no point in making an LS/VTEC motor and limiting it to 6.8rpm. The only reason you would build an LS/VTEC is so that you can rev up to ~8200rpm and make max power.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Will you please provide a link to a race or something with an unbuilt ls/vtec with a 6800 redline beating a gsr.

DOHCvTEC96

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Dunc &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Will you please provide a link to a race or something with an unbuilt ls/vtec with a 6800 redline beating a gsr.</TD></TR></TABLE>

or maybe a dyno graph? a stock bottom end ls vtec should have a little bit less compression with a bottom end that is not stable for 7k+ revs reliably, this coupled along with the long geared ls tranny, i find hard to believe is a match for a gsr.

doood

iTrader: (1)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SiR99 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Theres some WRONG information on this page. An unbuilt LS/VTEC meaning you used stock head and stock bottom end will be FASTER then a stock GSR. An LS/VTEC puts down around the same whp as a type R motor (around 165whp), but its not as reliable.

Also there is absolutely no point in making an LS/VTEC motor and limiting it to 6.8rpm. The only reason you would build an LS/VTEC is so that you can rev up to ~8200rpm and make max power.</TD></TR></TABLE>

this is the worst info yet

SiR99

I tried to find the original video I saw a while back but I cant find it anymore. It was a Red gsr and it raced a ITR, it barely won but it won. Maybe someone on this forum still has it but its not on youtube or this forum anymore, ill keep looking for it.

I'm not sure if you guys are new to the Honda scene or if your 16-18 year old guys who just got your car or have had it for only two years, but its nothing new that an LS/VTEC puts down about the same power as an ITR.

Why else would people do it?????????????????, Its not a cheap conversion, its not easy to do, you have to get stuff sent to the machine shop.

Also for the guy who doesnt understand how the lower compression makes more power then a Gsr, its because a gsR head is different then a b16 and b18c5 head. A motor with a b16/b18c5 head will have more compression then with a b18c1 head, because of the different dimensions.

SiR99

I FOUND ITTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT. its not racing an itr, its an ls/vtec vs a gsr. An ITR with i/h/e would run a 14.2 as well.

http://videos.streetfire.net/c...7.htm

numbnuts22715

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SiR99 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I FOUND ITTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT. its not racing an itr, its an ls/vtec vs a gsr. An ITR with i/h/e would run a 14.2 as well.

http://videos.streetfire.net/c...7.htm</TD></TR></TABLE>


just because theres a video with a lsvtec that beats a gsr doesnt mean an unbuilt lsvtec is going to beat one....
Theres nothing even on that video thats saying that it's unbuilt.
Chances are, it is built... running a 14.2 and not being built.
A Stock RSX Type-S has 200 hp to the flywheel, which is around 170 or so to the wheels, and they run in the higher 14's, depending on drivers.
There's no way that that car is putting down more power than a stock type s with it being an unbuilt lsvtec.

Stop replying in this thread if you have NO idea what you're talking about. This is why people get so damn confused in the first place.

The type r would have an lsd, so that would help out a bit too.

Find an unbuilt lsvtec time slip.

Dunc

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SiR99 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'm not sure if you guys are new to the Honda scene or if your 16-18 year old guys who just got your car or have had it for only two years, but its nothing new that an LS/VTEC puts down about the same power as an ITR.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Nope, I'm not new. I'm 23 and have had my car since 04/13/2003. Plus it's ls/vtec and I do about 90% of my own work.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by numbnuts22715 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Stop replying in this thread if you have NO idea what you're talking about. This is why people get so damn confused in the first place.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Does the above mean I can stay in here?

numbnuts22715

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Dunc &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Nope, I'm not new. I'm 23 and have had my car since 04/13/2003. Plus it's ls/vtec and I do about 90% of my own work.

Does the above mean I can stay in here? </TD></TR></TABLE>

it sure does.

And a BUILT Ls/vtec can put down as much, or more as a itr.
The reason it puts down so much is because of the high compression..

WTF can an unbuilt lsvtec be as quick as an itr if
1) the lsvtec doesnt have an lsd
2) it has lower compression than a gsr, but the same head as an itr

It just doesnt go together.
The reason people do lsvtecs is because they can BUILD them to be faster than an b18c5 for cheaper.

If I'm wrong, lemme know... things just dont add up.