FAQ: Nitrous
11-27-2006, 06:31 AM
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_____Nitrous_____
Im looking to get a nitrous kit for my new (project) civic,01 d17a2. Well the car is still being finish from all the body work and stuff. The engine is basically stock excp. AEM SRi. So my question is. Whats the safe way to use nitrous on a stock d17a2 motor, or is it safe at all...lol.Im not doing anything major this civic but I want it to be a lilttle more faster than what it is now (d17a2 FTL 
). I thought about gettin a Zex dry kit w/ a 50-75 shoot. Help me and let me know if this is safe, or should I buy more bolts on before I install the kit.
Thanks,
TOPEM_II
). I thought about gettin a Zex dry kit w/ a 50-75 shoot. Help me and let me know if this is safe, or should I buy more bolts on before I install the kit.Thanks,
TOPEM_II
11-27-2006, 06:38 AM
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Re: _____Nitrous_____ (TOPEM_II)
from what i've heard, as long as you don't go over 75 you should be ok. i'd start with a 25-50 shot and see how that does. but if you're looking for a bigger shot, you're going to have to replace some internals.
11-27-2006, 06:55 AM
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Re: _____Nitrous_____ (jjohn6438)
I searched a little and I found out now, that the WET KIT is better than a dry kit on my car...Now im totally comfused. lol
11-27-2006, 06:57 AM
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Re: _____Nitrous_____ (jjohn6438)
I think I found my answer
I am writing this FAQ because of the generalization and contradictions in the first two. I think they were taken directly off several nitrous manufacturers websites so they aren't specific to our cars, which we all know are the most important. If you see an error or need to add to this please feel free to do so. I am going to try not to go over the general stuff in the first two nitrous posts such as "what is nitrous?, or "how does it work?" I will try to be as specific as possible and relate everything to the 7th gen. Civic. I am also attempting to keep everything flowing. Once answer will lead to the next question.
Q: What's the difference between the wet and dry system?
A: While the dry system injects only nitrous into the throttle body, the wet system injects both nitrous and fuel. That's the easiest and most basic way to explain and understand the difference in the two.
Q: Should I use the wet or dry system with my car?
A: Its HIGHLY recommended by me and countless other people to use the wet system. The wet system will ensure you have enough fuel to burn with the extra oxygen that is required to burn with nitrous injection. While I think there are a hand full of people on the site running dry kits seemingly trouble free I would advise against it. Because of the lack of extra fuel, a "lean condition" will occur within your engine. This is hazardous to you engine and will cause detonation if you're not careful. Although a wet kit is a few dollars more expensive it will be easier and safer for your engine to properly use nitrous oxide.
Q: What's up with this return less fuel system thing?
A: Yes, we do have a return less fuel system. It basically means that we cant adjust fuel pressure. Our stock injectors cant accommodate the extra oxygen that needs to be burned with nitrous injection. If your injectors become overworked and go over 100% duty cycle they will lock up, and your engine will detonate. This is another reason its suggested to go with the wet kit. It will add the extra fuel our injectors are incapable of doing.
Q: OK, so I'm going with the wet kit, what shot should I use?
A: Start off with the smallest shot available in your kit. Spray a few times, check your plugs for detonation, tune accordingly and move up if you feel comfortable. The smallest shot will vary from kit to kit. The NX kit has shots available from 35, 50 and 75, while the Zex kit uses 55, 65, and 75 jet shots.
Q: Zex, NX... What kit should I go with?
A: This is all a matter of personal opinion and tastes. Some people like the ease of installation with the Zex kit, but may like the blue bottle that NOS offers. I would however recommend going with a well known name brand kit. Zex, Nitrous Express (NX), NOS (Nitrous Oxide Systems), and Edlebrock are good quality kits. Each has its pros and cons, but they all do pretty much the same thing.
Q: Speaking of NOS, why does everyone give me **** when I say that?
A: Probably because you're using NOS to describe nitrous. As mentioned above, NOS is a brand of nitrous. A lot of people are **** about that kind of stuff. Personally I know what you're talking about so I wont flame you for it. However just say nitrous instead of nos so that your honest thread to ask a question wont get hijacked and turned into a post whoring/flaming contest.
Q: What's that you said about checking your plugs for detonation?
A: You should keep a close eye on what your car is telling you. After you spray a time or two, set aside some time to remove your spark plugs and make sure your not detonating. The color and type of residue will let you know if your engine is in trouble. Refer below for what to look out for, and how to correct problems.
THE PLUG: sooty, black plug coloration
WHAT IT MEANS: not enough nitrous/too much fuel, fuel mixture is too rich
HOW TO FIX IT: change your jets to increase nitrous or decrease fuel
THE PLUG: bluish or rainbow like coloring
WHAT IT MEANS: your engine is about to or is detonating
HOW TO FIX IT: ensure proper plugs are installed, reduce nitrous/increase fuel, ensure proper grade fuel is being used
When you check plugs, check EVERY plug. Due to the possibility of air/fuel mixture variations, you need to check every plug for signs of detonation.
Q: What was that about proper plugs?
A: General consensus says to use a plug two heat ranges cooler than stock. A factory type wide gap projected nose plug will produce a detonation condition. The detonation is not due to the heat range, it occurs because the ground strap of the spark plug becomes a glow plug instead of a spark plug. The ground strap is too long to dissipate the extra heat produced by nitrous. You can correct the problem by replacing the plugs with units that have shorter ground straps. Doing this shortens the heat path from the ground strap to the plug base. I use and recommend copper plugs.
Q: And what about proper fuel grade?
A: Again the general consensus says to use fuel with a minimum octane rating of 91. I use 93 octane fuel, it burns better, is better for your engine, and will help preserve the ozone layer. Using a lower octane fuel will cause pinging which will lead to detonation.
Q: OK, so can I use an octane booster?
A: Sure. However keep in mind how octane boosters are rated. If an octane booster has a 5 point rating, that means it will increase your overall octane rating by 5 tenths, not 5 whole points. So if you run 93 octane fuel with a 5 point octane booster, you'd be running 93.5 octane fuel.
Q: What about ignition timing?
A: General consensus tells us again to retard ignition timing 2 degrees for every 50 shot of nitrous you run. Many people also think its not necessary to retard timing. I personally am running a 55 shot with no timing change trouble free so far.
Q: Can I use a Jet or Hondata chip with nitrous?
A: NO. Again this is an ignition timing issue. Most aftermarket chips will advance your ignition timing. As stated above, if any change to timing is to be done, it should be to retard the timing, not advancing it. If your running a chip with nitrous you may want to check local bus schedules in your area.
Q: OK, so no chip, but what about nitrous with a turbo or supercharger?
A: First off, for the last time, THERE IS NO SUPERCHARGER FOR THE 7TH GEN. Most people only use nitrous with turbos to help spool up the turbo. If you don't know what turbos and spooling are, search, its lengthy and would be another thread in itself.
Q: I hear about purging, what is that?
A: Purge kits will clear your main nitrous feed line of any air, ensuring you inject pure nitrous. Purge kits also look sweet as hell. They blow a huge plume of pretty much snow into the atmosphere. Not only does it look cool, but its a good intimidation tactic to get out of a dreaded encounter with a Ford Festiva Type R.
Q: So I know the basics, anything else Ill need?
A: I would highly recommend a nitrous gauge and air/fuel gauge. A nitrous gauge will enable you to monitor bottle pressure to make sure you get the biggest kick out of your system. If you're going to get an air/fuel gauge I HIGHLY recommend you spend the three to four hundred dollars on a good gauge. Although I have one, a $70 Autometer air/fuel gauge isn't going to give you accurate information, its pretty much just good for a light show.
Q: I want to run a 100 shot, what do I need?
A: A different car or engine. Seriously though, the 100 shot is possible with a lot of money and patience. If you try to run a 100 shot you WILL be taking the bus. In order to get there, you would need to build your internals. The common things you would need are a new intake manifold, rods, pistons, cam, etc.. If I am leaving anything you deem pertinent out, please feel free to add
I am writing this FAQ because of the generalization and contradictions in the first two. I think they were taken directly off several nitrous manufacturers websites so they aren't specific to our cars, which we all know are the most important. If you see an error or need to add to this please feel free to do so. I am going to try not to go over the general stuff in the first two nitrous posts such as "what is nitrous?, or "how does it work?" I will try to be as specific as possible and relate everything to the 7th gen. Civic. I am also attempting to keep everything flowing. Once answer will lead to the next question.
Q: What's the difference between the wet and dry system?
A: While the dry system injects only nitrous into the throttle body, the wet system injects both nitrous and fuel. That's the easiest and most basic way to explain and understand the difference in the two.
Q: Should I use the wet or dry system with my car?
A: Its HIGHLY recommended by me and countless other people to use the wet system. The wet system will ensure you have enough fuel to burn with the extra oxygen that is required to burn with nitrous injection. While I think there are a hand full of people on the site running dry kits seemingly trouble free I would advise against it. Because of the lack of extra fuel, a "lean condition" will occur within your engine. This is hazardous to you engine and will cause detonation if you're not careful. Although a wet kit is a few dollars more expensive it will be easier and safer for your engine to properly use nitrous oxide.
Q: What's up with this return less fuel system thing?
A: Yes, we do have a return less fuel system. It basically means that we cant adjust fuel pressure. Our stock injectors cant accommodate the extra oxygen that needs to be burned with nitrous injection. If your injectors become overworked and go over 100% duty cycle they will lock up, and your engine will detonate. This is another reason its suggested to go with the wet kit. It will add the extra fuel our injectors are incapable of doing.
Q: OK, so I'm going with the wet kit, what shot should I use?
A: Start off with the smallest shot available in your kit. Spray a few times, check your plugs for detonation, tune accordingly and move up if you feel comfortable. The smallest shot will vary from kit to kit. The NX kit has shots available from 35, 50 and 75, while the Zex kit uses 55, 65, and 75 jet shots.
Q: Zex, NX... What kit should I go with?
A: This is all a matter of personal opinion and tastes. Some people like the ease of installation with the Zex kit, but may like the blue bottle that NOS offers. I would however recommend going with a well known name brand kit. Zex, Nitrous Express (NX), NOS (Nitrous Oxide Systems), and Edlebrock are good quality kits. Each has its pros and cons, but they all do pretty much the same thing.
Q: Speaking of NOS, why does everyone give me **** when I say that?
A: Probably because you're using NOS to describe nitrous. As mentioned above, NOS is a brand of nitrous. A lot of people are **** about that kind of stuff. Personally I know what you're talking about so I wont flame you for it. However just say nitrous instead of nos so that your honest thread to ask a question wont get hijacked and turned into a post whoring/flaming contest.
Q: What's that you said about checking your plugs for detonation?
A: You should keep a close eye on what your car is telling you. After you spray a time or two, set aside some time to remove your spark plugs and make sure your not detonating. The color and type of residue will let you know if your engine is in trouble. Refer below for what to look out for, and how to correct problems.
THE PLUG: sooty, black plug coloration
WHAT IT MEANS: not enough nitrous/too much fuel, fuel mixture is too rich
HOW TO FIX IT: change your jets to increase nitrous or decrease fuel
THE PLUG: bluish or rainbow like coloring
WHAT IT MEANS: your engine is about to or is detonating
HOW TO FIX IT: ensure proper plugs are installed, reduce nitrous/increase fuel, ensure proper grade fuel is being used
When you check plugs, check EVERY plug. Due to the possibility of air/fuel mixture variations, you need to check every plug for signs of detonation.
Q: What was that about proper plugs?
A: General consensus says to use a plug two heat ranges cooler than stock. A factory type wide gap projected nose plug will produce a detonation condition. The detonation is not due to the heat range, it occurs because the ground strap of the spark plug becomes a glow plug instead of a spark plug. The ground strap is too long to dissipate the extra heat produced by nitrous. You can correct the problem by replacing the plugs with units that have shorter ground straps. Doing this shortens the heat path from the ground strap to the plug base. I use and recommend copper plugs.
Q: And what about proper fuel grade?
A: Again the general consensus says to use fuel with a minimum octane rating of 91. I use 93 octane fuel, it burns better, is better for your engine, and will help preserve the ozone layer. Using a lower octane fuel will cause pinging which will lead to detonation.
Q: OK, so can I use an octane booster?
A: Sure. However keep in mind how octane boosters are rated. If an octane booster has a 5 point rating, that means it will increase your overall octane rating by 5 tenths, not 5 whole points. So if you run 93 octane fuel with a 5 point octane booster, you'd be running 93.5 octane fuel.
Q: What about ignition timing?
A: General consensus tells us again to retard ignition timing 2 degrees for every 50 shot of nitrous you run. Many people also think its not necessary to retard timing. I personally am running a 55 shot with no timing change trouble free so far.
Q: Can I use a Jet or Hondata chip with nitrous?
A: NO. Again this is an ignition timing issue. Most aftermarket chips will advance your ignition timing. As stated above, if any change to timing is to be done, it should be to retard the timing, not advancing it. If your running a chip with nitrous you may want to check local bus schedules in your area.
Q: OK, so no chip, but what about nitrous with a turbo or supercharger?
A: First off, for the last time, THERE IS NO SUPERCHARGER FOR THE 7TH GEN. Most people only use nitrous with turbos to help spool up the turbo. If you don't know what turbos and spooling are, search, its lengthy and would be another thread in itself.
Q: I hear about purging, what is that?
A: Purge kits will clear your main nitrous feed line of any air, ensuring you inject pure nitrous. Purge kits also look sweet as hell. They blow a huge plume of pretty much snow into the atmosphere. Not only does it look cool, but its a good intimidation tactic to get out of a dreaded encounter with a Ford Festiva Type R.
Q: So I know the basics, anything else Ill need?
A: I would highly recommend a nitrous gauge and air/fuel gauge. A nitrous gauge will enable you to monitor bottle pressure to make sure you get the biggest kick out of your system. If you're going to get an air/fuel gauge I HIGHLY recommend you spend the three to four hundred dollars on a good gauge. Although I have one, a $70 Autometer air/fuel gauge isn't going to give you accurate information, its pretty much just good for a light show.
Q: I want to run a 100 shot, what do I need?
A: A different car or engine. Seriously though, the 100 shot is possible with a lot of money and patience. If you try to run a 100 shot you WILL be taking the bus. In order to get there, you would need to build your internals. The common things you would need are a new intake manifold, rods, pistons, cam, etc.. If I am leaving anything you deem pertinent out, please feel free to add
11-27-2006, 06:58 AM
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Re: _____Nitrous_____ (jjohn6438)
I've never used nitrous, but I've heard good things about the zex kit. I've heard the D17A2 internals should be good to around 200whp, so I wouldn't go bigger than a 75 shot.
EDIT: Made this post before he posted his others. One thing to keep in mind when using a wet shot is that if it's a small shot the fuel jet could become cloged and deliver less fuel than nessacary or no fuel at all. Also if you use a dry kit you would want to convert to a return fuel system and have better fuel injectors, but if you're wanting to make a serious project out of a D17A2 you would want to do this anyways. There is no hondata for our car, but if you ran an EMS with nitrous control you could advance the timing when not sparying and retard it while spraying.
hope this helps
Modified by TN90accord at 11:12 AM 11/27/2006
EDIT: Made this post before he posted his others. One thing to keep in mind when using a wet shot is that if it's a small shot the fuel jet could become cloged and deliver less fuel than nessacary or no fuel at all. Also if you use a dry kit you would want to convert to a return fuel system and have better fuel injectors, but if you're wanting to make a serious project out of a D17A2 you would want to do this anyways. There is no hondata for our car, but if you ran an EMS with nitrous control you could advance the timing when not sparying and retard it while spraying.
hope this helps
Modified by TN90accord at 11:12 AM 11/27/2006
11-27-2006, 08:53 AM
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Hey man, i am in no way a nitrous guru, so hopefully someone else posts up but here are some pointers.
ONLY get a zex wet kit, IMO they are the safest and best kits.
Why?
They have 2 seperate anti-moron devices.
1) A WOT switch, u cannot engage the nitrous unless u are at WOT( wide open throttle)
2) They have a window switch, this only allows u to engage nitrous at between 2 RPM's that you choose. ( such as above 5000RPM, and below 7000RPM).
This way if u do miss a shift, u wont blow ur redline, and still have nitrous active.
And yes WET is the only way to go, otherwise ur asking for MAJOR problems.
As our cars have a returnless fuel line, u cant just bump the fuel pressure up like u could on all older honda's.
U must use the wet kit to supply this extra fuel the fuel lines cant supply.
Lastly, i would get at LEAST a VAFC2 so u can do somekind of tuning, although it wont do much, its better than nothing. I would like to see u step up to something a little better, but thats also a lot more $$$.
ANother must is colder spark plugs, forget what the majority of people are using on their d17a2+nitrous projects, but i believe they are a 2 step colder plug.
Then i would invest in an I/Header/2.25" exhaust to take advantage of the nitrous, and maybe a clutch( although ive heard the stockers can take it for a while).
Good Luck!
PS. Start off small, start with like a 50 shot, tune that. Dial in ur 1/4 mile times, then after uve used it for a bit, step up to 75.
*edit* another smart idea might be some ARP bolts for the head.
ONLY get a zex wet kit, IMO they are the safest and best kits.
Why?
They have 2 seperate anti-moron devices.
1) A WOT switch, u cannot engage the nitrous unless u are at WOT( wide open throttle)
2) They have a window switch, this only allows u to engage nitrous at between 2 RPM's that you choose. ( such as above 5000RPM, and below 7000RPM).
This way if u do miss a shift, u wont blow ur redline, and still have nitrous active.
And yes WET is the only way to go, otherwise ur asking for MAJOR problems.
As our cars have a returnless fuel line, u cant just bump the fuel pressure up like u could on all older honda's.
U must use the wet kit to supply this extra fuel the fuel lines cant supply.
Lastly, i would get at LEAST a VAFC2 so u can do somekind of tuning, although it wont do much, its better than nothing. I would like to see u step up to something a little better, but thats also a lot more $$$.
ANother must is colder spark plugs, forget what the majority of people are using on their d17a2+nitrous projects, but i believe they are a 2 step colder plug.
Then i would invest in an I/Header/2.25" exhaust to take advantage of the nitrous, and maybe a clutch( although ive heard the stockers can take it for a while).
Good Luck!
PS. Start off small, start with like a 50 shot, tune that. Dial in ur 1/4 mile times, then after uve used it for a bit, step up to 75.
*edit* another smart idea might be some ARP bolts for the head.
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