Supercharger - The "Other" side
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Supercharger - The "Other" side
In reading different posts, it seems there are a few people on this board considering the Comptech supercharger. Since I have now had a little time to enjoy mine, and have already communicated all things I love about the supercharger, I felt it was time to mention a few of the things I don’t like about the supercharger. This list does not include the warranty issues.
*Disclaimer: All comments are my opinion and directly related to the way “I” drive. This is “my” experience with the supercharger based on the way “I” drive. As a basis for you to understand my driving habits, I am a 47 year old father of 2 (15 & 23 in age), who probably drives a bit more conservatively then you young bucks, but loves to go fast when conditions allow.
Here they are, the list is short and the “likes” greatly out weigh the “dislikes” (In my opinion).
1. Fuel: In normal driving I have noticed a slight decline in my gas mileage. In the beginning I thought it might be better, but I was wrong. Prior to the supercharger, I has getting about 265 miles to a tank (filling up with 2 to 3 bars remaining). This was pretty consistent. With the supercharger, I seem to only be getting about 210 to 220 miles to a tank.
The other dislike regarding fuel is the octane and cost. The tuning software for the supercharger was developed assuming a 91 octane fuel. True, everything runs beautifully with 91 octane, but I feel a definite improvement using 94 to 96 octane. Even though it is not required, the engine definitely performs better with a higher octane fuel. I run 50% 91 octane and 50% 100 octane. 100 octane fuel is hard to find (about 15 miles from house) and is over $5.00 a gallon. With the reduced gas mileage, my monthly fuel expense has increased from around $110 to around $195.
2. Shift Point: Prior to the supercharger, my shift point was around 3,000 rpm. In normal driving, the acceleration between 2,000 to 3,000 rpm was smooth. No surging or delayed throttle response. This made driving in traffic a bit more bearable. With the supercharger, I have had to move my shift point to 4,000 rpm. Running under 3,000 rpm, the engine just feels sluggish. When applying anymore than light throttle under 3,000 rpm, the engine surges slightly, and throttle response is laggy.
However, from 4,000 rpm and up, everything comes together. Throttle response is on the money and acceleration is smooth, linear and extremely rapid.
3. 6th Gear: Plain and simple, the supercharger does not like 6th gear. To date, every time I have shifted into 6th, I get mild engine surge and throttle response sucks. I am assuming the reason is because of the low rpm. For the most part, I switch to 6th when I am on the freeway and moving at 65 mph or better. The only time I have found 6th gear even remotely comfortable to drive in, is when I am going 80 mph or better (which is rear).
4. Cold Engine: I have owned 3 Honda’s in my life and none of them really ran well when cold. This SI has been the worst so far in regards to running cold. With the supercharger, forget it. It surges so bad, it is difficult to drive. Thank god they warm-up quick. Today, I let the engine warm-up for at least 3 to 5 minutes before taking off. No more start in go in the mornings. :/
Don’t get wrong here. I love the supercharger and in no way regret may decision to have it installed. The power and torque from 4,000 rpm is incredible, especially if you floor it. It sounds awesome and is incredibly fun. But I thought those who are considering the supercharger, should know both sides.
*Disclaimer: All comments are my opinion and directly related to the way “I” drive. This is “my” experience with the supercharger based on the way “I” drive. As a basis for you to understand my driving habits, I am a 47 year old father of 2 (15 & 23 in age), who probably drives a bit more conservatively then you young bucks, but loves to go fast when conditions allow.
Here they are, the list is short and the “likes” greatly out weigh the “dislikes” (In my opinion).
1. Fuel: In normal driving I have noticed a slight decline in my gas mileage. In the beginning I thought it might be better, but I was wrong. Prior to the supercharger, I has getting about 265 miles to a tank (filling up with 2 to 3 bars remaining). This was pretty consistent. With the supercharger, I seem to only be getting about 210 to 220 miles to a tank.
The other dislike regarding fuel is the octane and cost. The tuning software for the supercharger was developed assuming a 91 octane fuel. True, everything runs beautifully with 91 octane, but I feel a definite improvement using 94 to 96 octane. Even though it is not required, the engine definitely performs better with a higher octane fuel. I run 50% 91 octane and 50% 100 octane. 100 octane fuel is hard to find (about 15 miles from house) and is over $5.00 a gallon. With the reduced gas mileage, my monthly fuel expense has increased from around $110 to around $195.
2. Shift Point: Prior to the supercharger, my shift point was around 3,000 rpm. In normal driving, the acceleration between 2,000 to 3,000 rpm was smooth. No surging or delayed throttle response. This made driving in traffic a bit more bearable. With the supercharger, I have had to move my shift point to 4,000 rpm. Running under 3,000 rpm, the engine just feels sluggish. When applying anymore than light throttle under 3,000 rpm, the engine surges slightly, and throttle response is laggy.
However, from 4,000 rpm and up, everything comes together. Throttle response is on the money and acceleration is smooth, linear and extremely rapid.
3. 6th Gear: Plain and simple, the supercharger does not like 6th gear. To date, every time I have shifted into 6th, I get mild engine surge and throttle response sucks. I am assuming the reason is because of the low rpm. For the most part, I switch to 6th when I am on the freeway and moving at 65 mph or better. The only time I have found 6th gear even remotely comfortable to drive in, is when I am going 80 mph or better (which is rear).
4. Cold Engine: I have owned 3 Honda’s in my life and none of them really ran well when cold. This SI has been the worst so far in regards to running cold. With the supercharger, forget it. It surges so bad, it is difficult to drive. Thank god they warm-up quick. Today, I let the engine warm-up for at least 3 to 5 minutes before taking off. No more start in go in the mornings. :/
Don’t get wrong here. I love the supercharger and in no way regret may decision to have it installed. The power and torque from 4,000 rpm is incredible, especially if you floor it. It sounds awesome and is incredibly fun. But I thought those who are considering the supercharger, should know both sides.
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Re: (WILD_WILL)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by WILD_WILL »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I read it somewhere but i forget when does VTEC crack with the new supercharger ecu upgrade ?</TD></TR></TABLE>
On a stock SI, Vtec will engage at 5,500 to 5,800 rpm AND wide open throttle (or close to wide open). At least mine was this way when it was stock.
With the supercharger, Vtec will engage at 3,200 rpm AND wide open throttle (or close to wide open throttle). The 3,200 rpm number was told to me by the mechanics that did the supercharger install. I am not sure if this is where the "standard" supercharger reflash has it set. My mechanics worked independently with Hondata and tweaked the reflash a bit for my installation. This was one the reasons my install took 4 days.
The main difference is that the Vtec window opens sooner.
So, in a stock SI, if you floor it at 4,000 rpm, the engine winds up and when 5,500/5,800 rpm hits, Vtec engages. When this happens you feel a noticeable increase in acceleration. Your power-band is strongest from Vtec engagements to red-line.
With the supercharge, the Vtec window opens at 3,200 rpm. When you floor it at 4,000 rpm, Vtec engages at that point. You feel hard acceleration from that point all the way to red-line.
The acceleration difference is very noticeable. With the supercharger, the acceleration between 4,000 rpm to red-line is much greater than the stock SI. I mean there is huge difference. In fact, the few times I have floored at 4,000 rpm, in 2nd or 3rd gear, with the supercharger, the acceleration and torque hitting the front wheel made the car feel a little "squirrelly", and your at the rev limiter quicker than snot. You got be ready for it.
Hope this answered the question.
On a stock SI, Vtec will engage at 5,500 to 5,800 rpm AND wide open throttle (or close to wide open). At least mine was this way when it was stock.
With the supercharger, Vtec will engage at 3,200 rpm AND wide open throttle (or close to wide open throttle). The 3,200 rpm number was told to me by the mechanics that did the supercharger install. I am not sure if this is where the "standard" supercharger reflash has it set. My mechanics worked independently with Hondata and tweaked the reflash a bit for my installation. This was one the reasons my install took 4 days.
The main difference is that the Vtec window opens sooner.
So, in a stock SI, if you floor it at 4,000 rpm, the engine winds up and when 5,500/5,800 rpm hits, Vtec engages. When this happens you feel a noticeable increase in acceleration. Your power-band is strongest from Vtec engagements to red-line.
With the supercharge, the Vtec window opens at 3,200 rpm. When you floor it at 4,000 rpm, Vtec engages at that point. You feel hard acceleration from that point all the way to red-line.
The acceleration difference is very noticeable. With the supercharger, the acceleration between 4,000 rpm to red-line is much greater than the stock SI. I mean there is huge difference. In fact, the few times I have floored at 4,000 rpm, in 2nd or 3rd gear, with the supercharger, the acceleration and torque hitting the front wheel made the car feel a little "squirrelly", and your at the rev limiter quicker than snot. You got be ready for it.
Hope this answered the question.
Re: (Hellzcivic)
nice review. intriguing to see an "old timer" this into the civics too... but definatey cool none-the-less 
and definately the reason for your mpg to decrease as much as it has is probably due tol your new vtec engagement point, which you stated you now have to rev higher for decent throttle response your engaging vtec everytime you shift... which is definately killin the MPG
even though its sluggish, you should try not crackin i-vtec to see if you get a change in mpg. maybe not though since it's sluggish and requires more throttle... but worth a tank to see right? hehe
to yah guy
and definately the reason for your mpg to decrease as much as it has is probably due tol your new vtec engagement point, which you stated you now have to rev higher for decent throttle response your engaging vtec everytime you shift... which is definately killin the MPG
even though its sluggish, you should try not crackin i-vtec to see if you get a change in mpg. maybe not though since it's sluggish and requires more throttle... but worth a tank to see right? hehe
to yah guy
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Re: Supercharger - The "Other" side (Hellzcivic)
In all fairness, I need to chime in with my OPINIONS as well, because some people take opinions as absolute fact...
My experience is similar, but I was getting 300-325 miles to a tank. I now get 280-300miles.
It's your choice to use anything more than 91. No one is forcing you to use higher octane than that. 91 octane is minimum for a STOCK Si...
For me with normal driving, everything is silky smooth. I've noticed a bit of a surge when I start off slow, and then hammer the gas, you can feel a surge when VTEC crosses over if you were light on the throttle and then get into it hard. I have a feeling it has something to do with DBW. If i start off in 1st, and then mash the gas... the car hesitates and then goes.
Start & Go on a cold engine is not a good thing, especially not on a boosted car. What do you expect? I let mine warm up 3-4 bars before pulling out of the garage, and I wait until 9bars before I go over 3000 RPM.[/QUOTE]
Originally Posted by Hellzcivic
1. Fuel: In normal driving I have noticed a slight decline in my gas mileage. In the beginning I thought it might be better, but I was wrong. Prior to the supercharger, I has getting about 265 miles to a tank (filling up with 2 to 3 bars remaining). This was pretty consistent. With the supercharger, I seem to only be getting about 210 to 220 miles to a tank.
Originally Posted by Hellzcivic
The other dislike regarding fuel is the octane and cost. The tuning software for the supercharger was developed assuming a 91 octane fuel. True, everything runs beautifully with 91 octane, but I feel a definite improvement using 94 to 96 octane. Even though it is not required, the engine definitely performs better with a higher octane fuel. I run 50% 91 octane and 50% 100 octane. 100 octane fuel is hard to find (about 15 miles from house) and is over $5.00 a gallon. With the reduced gas mileage, my monthly fuel expense has increased from around $110 to around $195.
Originally Posted by Hellzcivic
2. Shift Point: Prior to the supercharger, my shift point was around 3,000 rpm. In normal driving, the acceleration between 2,000 to 3,000 rpm was smooth. No surging or delayed throttle response. This made driving in traffic a bit more bearable. With the supercharger, I have had to move my shift point to 4,000 rpm. Running under 3,000 rpm, the engine just feels sluggish. When applying anymore than light throttle under 3,000 rpm, the engine surges slightly, and throttle response is laggy.
However, from 4,000 rpm and up, everything comes together. Throttle response is on the money and acceleration is smooth, linear and extremely rapid.
However, from 4,000 rpm and up, everything comes together. Throttle response is on the money and acceleration is smooth, linear and extremely rapid.
Originally Posted by Hellzcivic
3. 6th Gear: Plain and simple, the supercharger does not like 6th gear. To date, every time I have shifted into 6th, I get mild engine surge and throttle response sucks. I am assuming the reason is because of the low rpm. For the most part, I switch to 6th when I am on the freeway and moving at 65 mph or better. The only time I have found 6th gear even remotely comfortable to drive in, is when I am going 80 mph or better (which is rear).
I disagree 100%. If I am just driving around, crusing, or whatever... I drive in 6th gear. Depending on speed, 5th, but for the most part 6th gear is fine above 2500rpm.
I disagree 100%. If I am just driving around, crusing, or whatever... I drive in 6th gear. Depending on speed, 5th, but for the most part 6th gear is fine above 2500rpm.
Originally Posted by Hellzcivic
4. Cold Engine: I have owned 3 Honda’s in my life and none of them really ran well when cold. This SI has been the worst so far in regards to running cold. With the supercharger, forget it. It surges so bad, it is difficult to drive. Thank god they warm-up quick. Today, I let the engine warm-up for at least 3 to 5 minutes before taking off. No more start in go in the mornings. :/
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Re: Supercharger - The "Other" side (Hellzcivic)
Thx for your comments (positive and negative) on your Comptech SC observations/experiences so far. Definitely informative for those of us who might be looking into the Comptech unit. *Good disclaimer by the way*
And as SeanJohn mentioned it is interesting reading comments from our more "experienced" members
(i don't wanna call ya old). on things like their SC'd civic Si. It is a good thing tho.
You mentioned the car feels sluggish anywhere under 3,000rpm. Would you say the car feels even more sluggish than stock under that rpm? Or is it just such a drastic difference from under 3k rpm to over 4k rpm that it feels really sluggish? (I hope that makes sense).
Im just curious because what you described sounds more like a turbo or centrifugal supercharges characteristics...not a eaton modified roots type supercharger which I believe comptech is. Tuning may be an issue or the issue but I was just wondering what you thought.
Thx again for your thoughts on the kit.
And as SeanJohn mentioned it is interesting reading comments from our more "experienced" members
(i don't wanna call ya old). on things like their SC'd civic Si. It is a good thing tho. You mentioned the car feels sluggish anywhere under 3,000rpm. Would you say the car feels even more sluggish than stock under that rpm? Or is it just such a drastic difference from under 3k rpm to over 4k rpm that it feels really sluggish? (I hope that makes sense).
Im just curious because what you described sounds more like a turbo or centrifugal supercharges characteristics...not a eaton modified roots type supercharger which I believe comptech is. Tuning may be an issue or the issue but I was just wondering what you thought.
Thx again for your thoughts on the kit.
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Re: Supercharger - The "Other" side (Flolikewater)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Flolikewater »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Thx for your comments (positive and negative) on your Comptech SC observations/experiences so far. Definitely informative for those of us who might be looking into the Comptech unit. *Good disclaimer by the way*
And as SeanJohn mentioned it is interesting reading comments from our more "experienced" members (i don't wanna call ya old). on things like their SC'd civic Si. It is a good thing tho.
You mentioned the car feels sluggish anywhere under 3,000rpm. Would you say the car feels even more sluggish than stock under that rpm? Or is it just such a drastic difference from under 3k rpm to over 4k rpm that it feels really sluggish? (I hope that makes sense).
Im just curious because what you described sounds more like a turbo or centrifugal supercharges characteristics...not a eaton modified roots type supercharger which I believe comptech is. Tuning may be an issue or the issue but I was just wondering what you thought.
Thx again for your thoughts on the kit. </TD></TR></TABLE>
I don't think it's sluggish at all. I cruise around in 6th gear at 2000 rpm all the time. It doesn't accelerate a whole lot without downshifting, but I don't think any cars will.
When it was stock, it was very sluggish IMO under 3500. I usually shift at 3000-3500 now. And franky I don't need to rev any higher unless I want to really move.
And as SeanJohn mentioned it is interesting reading comments from our more "experienced" members
(i don't wanna call ya old). on things like their SC'd civic Si. It is a good thing tho. You mentioned the car feels sluggish anywhere under 3,000rpm. Would you say the car feels even more sluggish than stock under that rpm? Or is it just such a drastic difference from under 3k rpm to over 4k rpm that it feels really sluggish? (I hope that makes sense).
Im just curious because what you described sounds more like a turbo or centrifugal supercharges characteristics...not a eaton modified roots type supercharger which I believe comptech is. Tuning may be an issue or the issue but I was just wondering what you thought.
Thx again for your thoughts on the kit.
</TD></TR></TABLE>I don't think it's sluggish at all. I cruise around in 6th gear at 2000 rpm all the time. It doesn't accelerate a whole lot without downshifting, but I don't think any cars will.
When it was stock, it was very sluggish IMO under 3500. I usually shift at 3000-3500 now. And franky I don't need to rev any higher unless I want to really move.
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Re: Supercharger - The "Other" side (j.fuggi)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by j.fuggi »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">In all fairness, I need to chime in with my OPINIONS as well, because some people take opinions as absolute fact...
Thanks, other peoples opinions are great. Everyone's driving experience will be different, so input from other SC people is wonderful. Thank you for replying and adding your experiences to the thread.
My experience is similar, but I was getting 300-325 miles to a tank. I now get 280-300miles.
Wow, I never got that kind of gas mileage, ever, good for you bro.
It's your choice to use anything more than 91. No one is forcing you to use higher octane than that. 91 octane is minimum for a STOCK Si...
That is absolutely correct. As I mentioned, the SC runs wonderful on plain old 91 octane. That is also what the SC reflash is programmed to support. Higher octane was totally my choice. My mechanic made it very clear, that 91 was fine, but try something higher and see if you like it. I tried it and I liked it, so I decided to stay with it. I do notice a performance difference.
For me with normal driving, everything is silky smooth. I've noticed a bit of a surge when I start off slow, and then hammer the gas, you can feel a surge when VTEC crosses over if you were light on the throttle and then get into it hard. I have a feeling it has something to do with DBW. If i start off in 1st, and then mash the gas... the car hesitates and then goes.
This is good feedback. Everyones experience will be a little different. It is too bad we live so far apart. I think it would be good to have someone who knows more about Honda motors then I, as well as also have the SC, drive my car and do a real comparison.
If my understanding is correct, Dynospot worked directly with Hondata and made some adjustments to the reflash program before they flashed my ECU, I am wondering if that could be why my low RPM performance seems to be worse than yours. I will ask them today when I take it in.
Start & Go on a cold engine is not a good thing, especially not on a boosted car. What do you expect? I let mine warm up 3-4 bars before pulling out of the garage, and I wait until 9bars before I go over 3000 RPM.</TD></TR></TABLE>[/QUOTE]
Thanks again for your input. Everyones opinion will be different. What I feel as sluggish, may not feel the same for you.
Your comment regarding 6th gear is interesting. I am really surprised you are not having surging or power issues in 6th gear, under 3,000 rpm. It is really noticable in mine. Maybe what I am feeling more is the performance difference between 1st through 5th gear, and 6th gear? However, I do not remember it being this bad when the motor was stock.
Modified by Hellzcivic at 2:29 PM 11/17/2006
Modified by Hellzcivic at 2:31 PM 11/17/2006
Thanks, other peoples opinions are great. Everyone's driving experience will be different, so input from other SC people is wonderful. Thank you for replying and adding your experiences to the thread.
My experience is similar, but I was getting 300-325 miles to a tank. I now get 280-300miles.
Wow, I never got that kind of gas mileage, ever, good for you bro.
It's your choice to use anything more than 91. No one is forcing you to use higher octane than that. 91 octane is minimum for a STOCK Si...
That is absolutely correct. As I mentioned, the SC runs wonderful on plain old 91 octane. That is also what the SC reflash is programmed to support. Higher octane was totally my choice. My mechanic made it very clear, that 91 was fine, but try something higher and see if you like it. I tried it and I liked it, so I decided to stay with it. I do notice a performance difference.
For me with normal driving, everything is silky smooth. I've noticed a bit of a surge when I start off slow, and then hammer the gas, you can feel a surge when VTEC crosses over if you were light on the throttle and then get into it hard. I have a feeling it has something to do with DBW. If i start off in 1st, and then mash the gas... the car hesitates and then goes.
This is good feedback. Everyones experience will be a little different. It is too bad we live so far apart. I think it would be good to have someone who knows more about Honda motors then I, as well as also have the SC, drive my car and do a real comparison.
If my understanding is correct, Dynospot worked directly with Hondata and made some adjustments to the reflash program before they flashed my ECU, I am wondering if that could be why my low RPM performance seems to be worse than yours. I will ask them today when I take it in.
Start & Go on a cold engine is not a good thing, especially not on a boosted car. What do you expect? I let mine warm up 3-4 bars before pulling out of the garage, and I wait until 9bars before I go over 3000 RPM.</TD></TR></TABLE>[/QUOTE]
Thanks again for your input. Everyones opinion will be different. What I feel as sluggish, may not feel the same for you.
Your comment regarding 6th gear is interesting. I am really surprised you are not having surging or power issues in 6th gear, under 3,000 rpm. It is really noticable in mine. Maybe what I am feeling more is the performance difference between 1st through 5th gear, and 6th gear? However, I do not remember it being this bad when the motor was stock.
Modified by Hellzcivic at 2:29 PM 11/17/2006
Modified by Hellzcivic at 2:31 PM 11/17/2006
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Re: Supercharger - The "Other" side (j.fuggi)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by j.fuggi »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> Start & Go on a cold engine is not a good thing, especially not on a boosted car. What do you expect? I let mine warm up 3-4 bars before pulling out of the garage, and I wait until 9bars before I go over 3000 RPM.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Care to tell us why It's not good? Facts to back up your statement would be appreciated.
Care to tell us why It's not good? Facts to back up your statement would be appreciated.
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Re: Supercharger - The "Other" side (Lynx Bus Type R)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Lynx Bus Type R »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Care to tell us why It's not good? Facts to back up your statement would be appreciated. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Besides the fact that the car runs like absolute **** if you don't let it warm up...
In a cold engine, the oil is thick and resists flow, which means the engine has to work harder to overcome internal friction. Thick oil also takes longer to circulate, which allows metal-to-metal contact and increases engine wear.
Care to tell us why It's not good? Facts to back up your statement would be appreciated. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Besides the fact that the car runs like absolute **** if you don't let it warm up...
In a cold engine, the oil is thick and resists flow, which means the engine has to work harder to overcome internal friction. Thick oil also takes longer to circulate, which allows metal-to-metal contact and increases engine wear.
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