How is too low??
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From: Chim, Chim, Chim
How is too low??
hey everyone i have a 2004 RSX and i plan on getting a TEIN type FLEX suspension and i was wondering how low is too low? i have heard stories of people going about 2 inches drop and havin no suspension travel. so i was wondering would it handle good or not?? Thanks in advance. 
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From: Sacramento, ca, US
Re: (VBPType-S)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by VBPType-S »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i have a 2 inch drop and it still rides as good as stock IMO. Just eliminate the gap between the top of tire and fender and that is as low as you should go.</TD></TR></TABLE>
What suspension do you have? Im dropped on Tein SS-P's and it rides ok, but not as smooth as stock.
What suspension do you have? Im dropped on Tein SS-P's and it rides ok, but not as smooth as stock.
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Re: How is too low?? (RSX-R)
I have Tein Type Flex on my EP3 ... a great suspension I must say! Tein ships them from the factory at a recommended ride height based on the spring rates you select. I really wouldn't alter it much from there ... I lowered mine a little more while I was getting it corner weighted. 
I said I don't want a title!
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From: OH
Re: (VBPType-S)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by VBPType-S »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i have a 2 inch drop and it still rides as good as stock IMO. Just eliminate the gap between the top of tire and fender and that is as low as you should go.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Somewhat unscientific, but ok. Springrate, shock, overall suspension travel, etc should all be figured in.
Some people think a tucked tire is ok, but I'm telling you that the car is going to handle better with about a 1.5 to 2 finger gap. What you idealy want to do is to measure (on a level surface) from the ground to the bottom of the jack pads.
Remember that the more you lower, the front suspension quickly starts running out of travel and the more you bind up in the rear. Not to mention that if you lower too much, you seriously screw up the roll center.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roll_center
Somewhat unscientific, but ok. Springrate, shock, overall suspension travel, etc should all be figured in.
Some people think a tucked tire is ok, but I'm telling you that the car is going to handle better with about a 1.5 to 2 finger gap. What you idealy want to do is to measure (on a level surface) from the ground to the bottom of the jack pads.
Remember that the more you lower, the front suspension quickly starts running out of travel and the more you bind up in the rear. Not to mention that if you lower too much, you seriously screw up the roll center.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roll_center
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From: Kent, WA, U.S
Re: (gm3w12)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by gm3w12 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
What suspension do you have? Im dropped on Tein SS-P's and it rides ok, but not as smooth as stock.</TD></TR></TABLE>
ya im also dropped on Tein SS-p's and iv eliminated the gap in the front but my rear is tucked by about 3 mm. Iv been scrapping my cat or piping underneath my car on unavoidable side walks so im gonna raise the rear, Although, suprisingly the ride is still ok with the EDFC.
What suspension do you have? Im dropped on Tein SS-P's and it rides ok, but not as smooth as stock.</TD></TR></TABLE>
ya im also dropped on Tein SS-p's and iv eliminated the gap in the front but my rear is tucked by about 3 mm. Iv been scrapping my cat or piping underneath my car on unavoidable side walks so im gonna raise the rear, Although, suprisingly the ride is still ok with the EDFC.
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From: Chim, Chim, Chim
Re: (JDM.K20)
So your saying about 1.5 or 2 finger gaps will still run fine? I saw one guy with 1 or 2 finger gaps and he said it ran like crap so he raised it back up and said it ran better than when it was slammed.
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From: Kent, WA, U.S
Re: (RSX-R)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RSX-R »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So your saying about 1.5 or 2 finger gaps will still run fine? I saw one guy with 1 or 2 finger gaps and he said it ran like crap so he raised it back up and said it ran better than when it was slammed. </TD></TR></TABLE>
i dont kno what kind of coilovers the guy you talked to had but with a 1.5 to 2 finger gap you would be in the perfect range between drivability and handling.
i dont kno what kind of coilovers the guy you talked to had but with a 1.5 to 2 finger gap you would be in the perfect range between drivability and handling.
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From: Washington, DC, USA
Add "camber curve" to your list of parameters to consider.
As I've posted elsewhere:
Example: The angle of the front lower control arms while at stock height goes a little bit downwards from the center of the car to the wheels. So, as the suspension compresses, the arm comes towards being level, which makes the lower edge of the wheel move outwards, adding some negative camber -- which increases cornering grip.
(that's a description of the "camber curve" -- if you were to graph resulting camber angle vs suspension travel, it would make a curved line)
Lower the car a little bit (1 to 1.5"), and the geometry is still alright -- the body of the car drops the inboard mounting points of the control arms no lower than its outboard points, so the camber curve isn't affected too badly.
Lower the car too much, and the lower arm angles upward from the subframe to the strut. In this case, as the suspension compresses, the control arm swings its endpoint closer to the centerline of the car, which brings the bottom edge of the wheel hub inwards. That actually creates positive camber, and it's happening at the worst time -- while the car is cornering hard and requiring as much rubber on the road as possible.
As I've posted elsewhere:
Example: The angle of the front lower control arms while at stock height goes a little bit downwards from the center of the car to the wheels. So, as the suspension compresses, the arm comes towards being level, which makes the lower edge of the wheel move outwards, adding some negative camber -- which increases cornering grip.
(that's a description of the "camber curve" -- if you were to graph resulting camber angle vs suspension travel, it would make a curved line)
Lower the car a little bit (1 to 1.5"), and the geometry is still alright -- the body of the car drops the inboard mounting points of the control arms no lower than its outboard points, so the camber curve isn't affected too badly.
Lower the car too much, and the lower arm angles upward from the subframe to the strut. In this case, as the suspension compresses, the control arm swings its endpoint closer to the centerline of the car, which brings the bottom edge of the wheel hub inwards. That actually creates positive camber, and it's happening at the worst time -- while the car is cornering hard and requiring as much rubber on the road as possible.
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From: Kent, WA, U.S
Re: (BarracksSi)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BarracksSi »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Add "camber curve" to your list of parameters to consider.
As I've posted elsewhere:
Example: The angle of the front lower control arms while at stock height goes a little bit downwards from the center of the car to the wheels. So, as the suspension compresses, the arm comes towards being level, which makes the lower edge of the wheel move outwards, adding some negative camber -- which increases cornering grip.
(that's a description of the "camber curve" -- if you were to graph resulting camber angle vs suspension travel, it would make a curved line)
Lower the car a little bit (1 to 1.5"), and the geometry is still alright -- the body of the car drops the inboard mounting points of the control arms no lower than its outboard points, so the camber curve isn't affected too badly.
Lower the car too much, and the lower arm angles upward from the subframe to the strut. In this case, as the suspension compresses, the control arm swings its endpoint closer to the centerline of the car, which brings the bottom edge of the wheel hub inwards. That actually creates positive camber, and it's happening at the worst time -- while the car is cornering hard and requiring as much rubber on the road as possible. </TD></TR></TABLE>
thanks..thats kinda usefull to keep in mind
also, an alignment should tell u how much u need to adjust ur camber correct?
As I've posted elsewhere:
Example: The angle of the front lower control arms while at stock height goes a little bit downwards from the center of the car to the wheels. So, as the suspension compresses, the arm comes towards being level, which makes the lower edge of the wheel move outwards, adding some negative camber -- which increases cornering grip.
(that's a description of the "camber curve" -- if you were to graph resulting camber angle vs suspension travel, it would make a curved line)
Lower the car a little bit (1 to 1.5"), and the geometry is still alright -- the body of the car drops the inboard mounting points of the control arms no lower than its outboard points, so the camber curve isn't affected too badly.
Lower the car too much, and the lower arm angles upward from the subframe to the strut. In this case, as the suspension compresses, the control arm swings its endpoint closer to the centerline of the car, which brings the bottom edge of the wheel hub inwards. That actually creates positive camber, and it's happening at the worst time -- while the car is cornering hard and requiring as much rubber on the road as possible. </TD></TR></TABLE>
thanks..thats kinda usefull to keep in mind
also, an alignment should tell u how much u need to adjust ur camber correct?
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From: WestSide, USA
These cars are daily drivers. Lower it to where you like how it looks. Screw all that roll center camber curve talk. If i could id drop mine so there was barely a gap in the front and just level it out in the rear. So basically the rear might tuck a little.
hope that didnt sound TOO ignorant
hope that didnt sound TOO ignorant
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From: Chim, Chim, Chim
Re: (VBPType-S)
well im not for the ricer looks and i do performance over rice looks anyday. so tucking tire is not one of my options if it screws up the steering geometry and the camber curve which it will. so im going to lower mine so the geometry will stay close to stock.
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From: WestSide, USA
makes sense. Even though you're never gonna corner hard enough to where all that geometry mumbo jumbo will matter and all youll have is a ton of money into a top notch suspension and your car still looks stock.
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From: Washington, DC, USA
Re: (VBPType-S)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by VBPType-S »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">makes sense. Even though you're never gonna corner hard enough to where all that geometry mumbo jumbo will matter and all youll have is a ton of money into a top notch suspension and your car still looks stock.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Not me; soon after modifying my EP, I started autocrossing.
</TD></TR></TABLE>Not me; soon after modifying my EP, I started autocrossing.
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From: Washington, DC, USA
Re: (JDM.K20)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JDM.K20 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
thanks..thats kinda usefull to keep in mind
also, an alignment should tell u how much u need to adjust ur camber correct?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Thanks;
An alignment will tell you how far off it is (lowering will always create negative camber in the rear, BTW, on our cars; but if rear toe is set to zero, you won't eat the tires). When you get down to it, though, you're the one who should decide how to set your camber.
Generally, among guys who autocross their EP/DC5's, they set front camber to about double the rear (for example, rear = -1 deg, front = -2). They'll even fiddle with the toe settings. For drag, set the front to zero for best traction.
thanks..thats kinda usefull to keep in mind
also, an alignment should tell u how much u need to adjust ur camber correct?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Thanks;
An alignment will tell you how far off it is (lowering will always create negative camber in the rear, BTW, on our cars; but if rear toe is set to zero, you won't eat the tires). When you get down to it, though, you're the one who should decide how to set your camber.
Generally, among guys who autocross their EP/DC5's, they set front camber to about double the rear (for example, rear = -1 deg, front = -2). They'll even fiddle with the toe settings. For drag, set the front to zero for best traction.
I said I don't want a title!
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From: OH
Re: (VBPType-S)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by VBPType-S »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">makes sense. Even though you're never gonna corner hard enough to where all that geometry mumbo jumbo will matter and all youll have is a ton of money into a top notch suspension and your car still looks stock.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yes, but it will be a much superior handling car. The one *huge* problem with the RSX is that it handles like crap. You need a good suspension to at least bring it up to normal levels.
If all you are after is lowering and don't care about how the car handles, why didn't you just cut your oem springs and save the $$? That would accomplish what you're after, it seems.
The idea, at least to me, when upgrading the suspension is to get a great handling car. Looks are nice too, but even a slight drop will help the RSX out.
</TD></TR></TABLE>Yes, but it will be a much superior handling car. The one *huge* problem with the RSX is that it handles like crap. You need a good suspension to at least bring it up to normal levels.
If all you are after is lowering and don't care about how the car handles, why didn't you just cut your oem springs and save the $$? That would accomplish what you're after, it seems.
The idea, at least to me, when upgrading the suspension is to get a great handling car. Looks are nice too, but even a slight drop will help the RSX out.
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From: Kent, WA, U.S
Re: (BarracksSi)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BarracksSi »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Thanks;
An alignment will tell you how far off it is (lowering will always create negative camber in the rear, BTW, on our cars; but if rear toe is set to zero, you won't eat the tires). When you get down to it, though, you're the one who should decide how to set your camber.
Generally, among guys who autocross their EP/DC5's, they set front camber to about double the rear (for example, rear = -1 deg, front = -2). They'll even fiddle with the toe settings. For drag, set the front to zero for best traction.</TD></TR></TABLE>
preciate the help
rite now I have about a 1.5 finger gap in the front and iv eliminated the gap in the rear ( but not tucking it). Do u have any suggestions as to wear i should set my camber ( so i dont have to get an alignment)?
Thanks;
An alignment will tell you how far off it is (lowering will always create negative camber in the rear, BTW, on our cars; but if rear toe is set to zero, you won't eat the tires). When you get down to it, though, you're the one who should decide how to set your camber.
Generally, among guys who autocross their EP/DC5's, they set front camber to about double the rear (for example, rear = -1 deg, front = -2). They'll even fiddle with the toe settings. For drag, set the front to zero for best traction.</TD></TR></TABLE>
preciate the help
rite now I have about a 1.5 finger gap in the front and iv eliminated the gap in the rear ( but not tucking it). Do u have any suggestions as to wear i should set my camber ( so i dont have to get an alignment)?
I said I don't want a title!
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From: OH
Re: (JDM.K20)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JDM.K20 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
preciate the help
rite now I have about a 1.5 finger gap in the front and iv eliminated the gap in the rear ( but not tucking it). Do u have any suggestions as to wear i should set my camber ( so i dont have to get an alignment)?</TD></TR></TABLE>
FWIW, the RSX handles *much* better with the front sitting lower than the rear (raked). You have your car setup opposite of that.
I keep saying--it isn't necessarily the front mac struts that's the problem...it is the rear setup that's the main issue with these cars.
But what's your concern here with camber...tire wear or good handling?
preciate the help
rite now I have about a 1.5 finger gap in the front and iv eliminated the gap in the rear ( but not tucking it). Do u have any suggestions as to wear i should set my camber ( so i dont have to get an alignment)?</TD></TR></TABLE>
FWIW, the RSX handles *much* better with the front sitting lower than the rear (raked). You have your car setup opposite of that.
I keep saying--it isn't necessarily the front mac struts that's the problem...it is the rear setup that's the main issue with these cars.
But what's your concern here with camber...tire wear or good handling?
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From: Washington, DC, USA
Re: (JDM.K20)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JDM.K20 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">... so i dont have to get an alignment...</TD></TR></TABLE>
Any time you change something in the suspension, it needs an alignment. Most places also give a warranty on alignments, so you can always go back and have it readjusted if necessary. That's why I suggest that people get their cars aligned right away and not waste time waiting for springs to "settle" -- get it done, drive another couple months, then get it re-done for free.
For a mild 1.5" drop, without camber kits, a shop (or yourself if you know how to do an alignment) will be able to get front camber near zero and rear camber will be around -2 degrees. Toe front & rear will be able to be adjusted to zero.
<u>Important</u>: If a shop tells you that the rear camber isn't adjustable with stock parts and they can only get it so far, do not complain. Accept it, tell them not to worry about the camber, and that you'll expect them to be able to zero the toe, which will save your tires a lot of excess wear.
Once you add camber kits, you can start messing with their settings some more. That's when you need a cooperative, knowledgeable shop and/or some DIY alignment knowledge to make the most use out of the suspension.
Any time you change something in the suspension, it needs an alignment. Most places also give a warranty on alignments, so you can always go back and have it readjusted if necessary. That's why I suggest that people get their cars aligned right away and not waste time waiting for springs to "settle" -- get it done, drive another couple months, then get it re-done for free.
For a mild 1.5" drop, without camber kits, a shop (or yourself if you know how to do an alignment) will be able to get front camber near zero and rear camber will be around -2 degrees. Toe front & rear will be able to be adjusted to zero.
<u>Important</u>: If a shop tells you that the rear camber isn't adjustable with stock parts and they can only get it so far, do not complain. Accept it, tell them not to worry about the camber, and that you'll expect them to be able to zero the toe, which will save your tires a lot of excess wear.
Once you add camber kits, you can start messing with their settings some more. That's when you need a cooperative, knowledgeable shop and/or some DIY alignment knowledge to make the most use out of the suspension.
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Joined: Feb 2008
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From: Los Angeles, CA, U.S.
Re: (BarracksSi)
What about Lowering Springs ? I really want to get me a set of Tein Springs to fit on my OEM shocks but i have no idea of how they ride . also where i can get a set for cheap .
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From: fortree, nj
Re: How is too low??
Lol....since we are using this as the "how low is to low" thread now. Heres my 2 cants.
As all of you know, the front suspension on our cars is macphearson strut type. That is a lower controle arm(lca), a knuckel and a coilover spring+ damper(strut) attached to that knuckle. As any vdub guy will tell you, The main trick to making a macphersone strut suspension set up handle is to control your suspension angles. Rule one! Never set up your suspension so the lca is angled up from the center of the car. Once that lca is angled up from the center of the car, cornering loads will lever on that lca and push your suspension through its travel. Thats why guys with overly lowered dc5/ep3's need to run huge spring rates to keep the cars off the bump stops in turns. Get your lca's angles right and your car will run with most of the stuff out there on the road, get them wrong, you have poop cart.
What does all that mean? Do not lower the car more than .75 inches max or you have pretty much killed the handling on your car....sorry.
As all of you know, the front suspension on our cars is macphearson strut type. That is a lower controle arm(lca), a knuckel and a coilover spring+ damper(strut) attached to that knuckle. As any vdub guy will tell you, The main trick to making a macphersone strut suspension set up handle is to control your suspension angles. Rule one! Never set up your suspension so the lca is angled up from the center of the car. Once that lca is angled up from the center of the car, cornering loads will lever on that lca and push your suspension through its travel. Thats why guys with overly lowered dc5/ep3's need to run huge spring rates to keep the cars off the bump stops in turns. Get your lca's angles right and your car will run with most of the stuff out there on the road, get them wrong, you have poop cart.
What does all that mean? Do not lower the car more than .75 inches max or you have pretty much killed the handling on your car....sorry.
